The Lasting Harm of Conversion Therapy: An Interview with Samuel Nieves

This interview was recorded in November 2025 in anticipation of the Supreme Court ruling in Chiles v. Salazar and released afterward. Rather than focusing on the legal details of the decision, Curt and Katie talk with Samuel Nieves about the harms of conversion therapy, how change efforts can be disguised as therapy, and what clinicians need to understand when working with survivors. Sam shares from his lived experience as a survivor and explains why the deepest harms often involve identity damage, loss of self-trust, and disconnection from one’s own lived experience.

About our guest:
Sam Nieves has a Bachelor’s in Psychology. In 2019, he entered grad school to become a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, but left the field after 6 months of clinical experience. Since 2020, Sam has used his personal, clinical, and educational background to support survivors of conversion therapy. He is now a board member of the non-profit organization Conversion Therapy Survivor Network. Sam uses the online name “CantPrayMeAway” to share his own experiences as a client of conversion therapy and advocates for the end of all conversion practices worldwide.

Key takeaways:

Conversion therapy is broader than many therapists realize and can show up in subtle, disguised forms

SOGIECE (sexual orientation and gender identity or expression change efforts) offers a clearer framework for recognizing sexual orientation and gender identity or expression change efforts

The core harm of conversion therapy is often identity damage and loss of self-trust

Even well-intentioned therapeutic tools can become retraumatizing when they are used in the service of changing identity

Survivors may need therapists to move slowly, stay client-centered, and understand that therapy itself may have been part of the harm

Full show notes and transcript: mtsgpodcast.com

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