He helped create the most listened-to podcasts in history and then walked away from the New York Times to start over from scratch. Welcome to The Media Odyssey Podcast!

In this episode, Evan and Marion sit down with Brian Reed, documentary podcaster and co-founder of Placement Theory, whose career spans documentary podcasts This American Life, S-Town, and now Question Everything. 

The conversation traces the origin story of Serial, which was expected to get a few hundred thousand downloads and ended up with hundreds of millions, all the way through to Brian's decision to leave the New York Times and build something new: Placement Theory, a audio production company built to support journalists and creators. 

Along the way, the episode digs into a question that runs underneath everything Brian makes: can quality, independent journalism survive? As local newsrooms collapse, public media gets defunded, and audiences feel overwhelmed and burned out, Brian makes the case that the desire for truth is still very much there as a market problem waiting for the right solution.

Key Takeaways:

1. Serial Was Expected to Get "a Few Hundred Thousand Downloads” Before It Got Hundreds of Millions 

When Sarah Koenig pitched Serial at This American Life, the team budgeted for a few hundred thousand downloads. It became the most listened-to podcast in the history of the format, redefining audio documentary as a medium, with hundreds of millions of downloads for the first season alone. Brian attributes much of this to the fact that they were reporting the Adnan Syed story in real time, week by week so it was breaking news every episode. It is clear the podcast played a direct role in Adnan's eventual release from prison.

2. S-Town Was Designed as an Audio Novel and Released All at Once 

Brian started reporting S-Town before Serial even existed, after receiving a listener email with the subject line "John B. Macklemore lives in Shit Town, Alabama." When the subject died by suicide in 2015, the story transformed. Brian and editor Julie Snyder used novels as their creative model, labeling the installments chapters instead of episodes and releasing all seven at once. It was one of the first times that had ever happened in podcasting. S-Town now has hundreds of millions of downloads and is in development as a TV show at Apple TV+.

3. The Economics of Serious Independent Journalism Are Hard, but People Want Truth

Brian is direct about the financial reality of running an independent audio production company: they're still figuring out how to make the show profitable. Their current model blends bespoke sponsorships, listener support through KCRW's public radio fundraising, and eventual subscription offerings. The broader state of journalism is rough with thousands of local newspapers diappearing, public trust in journalists is at historic lows, and signs of media capture happening in the US.

But there’s an optimistic conclusion from Brian’s on-the-ground reporting across the country: people do want reliable information. The problem isn't demand, it's discoverability and trust. This as a classic market problem that a journalism business should be positioned to solve.

4. Audio Is More Intimate Than Video and That's a Strategic Advantage Worth Protecting

Brian's company Placement Theory is an audio-first production company, and that’s deliberate. Creating video versions of their work would essentially require making a documentary — a completely different and far more expensive enterprise. They experimented with video, found that they weren't posting frequently enough to build a YouTube audience, and redirected their energy to where their audience actually was: Apple Podcasts and NPR. He still sees potential in short-form video as a discovery tool, but doesn't want to sacrifice the intimacy that makes audio narrative work.

Thank you to Brian Reed for joining the pod!

Brian Reed - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-reed-887411166/ 

Placement Theory - https://www.placementtheory.com/ 

Question Everything - https://www.kcrw.com/shows/question-everything/all-episodes

S-Town - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/s-town/id1212558767 

Interested in sponsorship? https://forms.gle/2LCWfX2HBNT8mtpx8

Connect with us on Linkedin:

Evan Shapiro - https://www.linkedin.com/in/eshap-media-cartographer/

Marion Ranchet - https://www.linkedin.com/in/marionranchet/

The Media Odyssey Podcast - https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-media-odyssey-podcast

• (00:00) - Cancel Culture Cold Open
• (00:39) - Meet Brian Reed
• (01:32) - Why Documentary Podcasts Win
• (03:43) - Podcasting Origins and TV Adaptations
• (05:54) - Defining Documentary Audio
• (07:17) - This American Life Apprenticeship
• (11:12) - How Serial Was Born
• (17:50) - S-Town and the NYT Era
• (27:55) - Birmingham Letter Mystery
• (29:23) - Leaving the Times
• (29:49) - Building Placement Theory
• (31:52) - Question Everything Mission
• (34:04) - Making Podcast Economics Work
• (37:14) - Journalism in Crisis
• (44:08) - Creators, Audio, and Video
• (51:56) - Social Media Trials and Wrap