Growing an audience is easy. Turning that audience into a real business is the part most marketers completely miss. And if you don’t understand the difference, you’re already behind.

In this episode, Daniel sits down with Marc Sirkin, former CEO of Third Door Media and longtime builder behind brands like MarTech.org and Search Engine Land, to unpack what it really takes to grow a media company….and why eyeballs don’t automatically equal revenue.

From why viral reach doesn’t guarantee conversions, to the danger of chasing new revenue streams too early, Marc shares lessons from decades of building audiences across nonprofits, publishing, and modern B2B marketing.

They also dive into why performance marketing has warped how we measure success, how brand is becoming the last true moat in an AI-driven world, and why consistency beats chasing the next shiny tactic.

If you’re a marketer trying to build trust, create sustainable growth, and avoid optimizing for the wrong metrics, this is the episode for YOU.

https://customer.io⁠ helps brands turn data into personalized messages that actually connect, across email, SMS, and beyond. Learn more at https://customer.io/tmm

Follow Marc:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcsirkin/

Follow Daniel:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing/

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Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: www.workweek.com