Today on the Saturday show, Mike shares a conversation he had with Charlie Sykes, former host of The Bulwark and current host of the new podcast To the Contrary. They discuss how ordinary citizens with cell phones in Minneapolis became Donald Trump's kryptonite, exposing the chaos of his immigration enforcement strategy and forcing a rare retreat from the administration. Charlie and Mike break down why the "chaos as a ladder" theory backfired, why ICE's brutality is finally breaking through to the "normies," and whether Republicans in Congress will ever rediscover their spines and reclaim their Article I powers.

Produced by Corey Wara

Coordinated by Lya Yanne

Video and Social Media by Geoff Craig

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