Two years ago, Al Carns was a colonel in the Royal Marines and, though he can never confirm or deny it, had also commanded the Special Boat Service. 

He pivoted to politics when he realised that the country's military leadership did not fully grasp the seismic shift in warfare brought about by drones and AI - but he did.

Having risen at breakneck speed to become armed forces minister, Al talks candidly to Patrick and Tom about the need for the country to prepare for war with Russia in "three to five years."

Hosts: General Sir Patrick Sanders and Tom Newton Dunn

Guest: Al Carns DSO OBE MC MP

Producer: Shabnam Grewal

Executive producer: Fiona Leach

Image: courtesy of Al Carns

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