Ed Atkins, artist and author of Flower, Old Food and A Primer for Cadavers, speaks to Dan Fox, filmmaker, musician and author of Pretentiousness: Why it Matters and Limbo, about his work to date. The conversation touches on catachresis and its relation to the animism of childhood, the feeling of words in the mouth, the thin border between pathos and slapstick, and the pleasure of making lists. Recorded remotely in May 2025. Edited by Frankie Wells. Music by Kwes Darko.