In this episode of “The David Frum Show,” The Atlantic’s David Frum opens with his thoughts on the nearly two decades of economic turmoil that has caused younger generations to lose faith in American institutions and led to the rise of populism in the United States. David argues that as the country stands on the precipice of a Donald Trump–manufactured economic crisis, perhaps we will learn to appreciate the basic ideas that led to prosperity in the 1980s and ’90s.

Then David is joined by CNN’s Fareed Zakaria to reflect on the American ideals that captivated David and Fareed when they first immigrated to the U.S. and whether they still ring true today. As America celebrates its 250th anniversary, David and Fareed discuss whether this country remains the same one they moved to many years ago and whether America has strayed from its foundational principles.

Finally, David concludes the episode with an examination of Italo Calvino’s 1972 novel, “Invisible Cities,” and a discussion about our postliterate society.

Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Atlantic subscribers also get access to exclusive subscriber audio in Apple Podcasts. Subscribe today at TheAtlantic.com/Listener.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices