Get 15% off OneSkin with the code beast at https://www.oneskin.co/beast #oneskinpod

Kurt Andersen joins Joanna Coles to trace Donald Trump’s rise from Spy magazine punchline to the ultimate show-business president, arguing that Trump didn’t invent the con so much as perfect a distinctly American tradition stretching back to P.T. Barnum’s “clever humbug,” where attention matters more than truth and audiences happily play along. Andersen dissects Trump’s maximalist language—everything the “greatest,” the “best,” the “like nobody’s ever seen”—and warns that the same improvisational instincts that fueled his celebrity now shape foreign policy, including claims of negotiations with Iran that didn’t exist and a presidency run like an endless next episode. They close on Epstein, conspiracies, and the blurry line between con and belief—asking whether Trump the salesman now believes his own pitch, and what it means when politics becomes a spectacle with global stakes.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices