In today's episode, David talks to Cate Hall about her book You Can Just Do Things: How High-Agency People Get What They Want Out of Life, written with Sasha Chapin. Agency is all the rage these days. Tech CEOs like Sam Altman have said that high agency is the skill they are hiring for in the age of AI. High agency people know what they want and they just get things done. But Cate's own life shows how difficult it can be to figure out what you want in the first place.

Cate was an incredibly high achiever from a young age. She double-majored in biochemistry and philosophy, graduated from Yale Law School, and was on the fast track with prestigious clerkships and a top job at a fancy law firm. But she was miserable. She quit law and became a very successful poker player, then struggled with drug addiction for about three years and lost everything. After rebuilding her life, she became co-CEO of a biotech company and later the CEO of the Astera Institute, a multibillion-dollar private foundation.

How did she do it? Her answer is agency. Cate shares advice on how to be more agentic in your own life, like staring into the abyss, communicating directly instead of expecting people to read your mind, and learning to love the moat of low status. She and David also discuss purpose, love, religion, and why willingly accepting constraints on your life can itself be an exercise of agency.

You Can Just Do Things, written with Sasha Chapin: https://www.catehall.com/the-book

Cate's newsletter, Useful Fictions: https://usefulfictions.substack.com/

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