Former Marine sniper AJ Pasciuti — author of the new book Dark Horse and host of the Combat Story podcast — joins the Chuck Toddcast for one of the most riveting and clear-eyed conversations about military service, leadership, and the realities of modern war. Pasciuti was 16 years old on September 11th, enlisted at 17, and eventually became the Marine who led the team that killed "Juba" — the notorious Iraqi sniper who uploaded videos of his American kills to the internet to taunt the U.S. military. He walks listeners through the entire hunt: how Marines studied Juba's uploaded footage to identify his patterns, how the team set a trap, how Pasciuti spotted Juba in his hide by catching the glint off the lens of a Sony Handycam, and how he knew within minutes that they'd gotten him — while emphasizing that he may have pulled the trigger but it was an entire team that brought Juba down. Pasciuti reflects on the strange experience of fighting enemies who saw themselves as freedom fighters rather than terrorists, why attention to detail is the trait that weeds out most sniper candidates, and how snipers are ultimately meant to combat the enemy emotionally as much as physically.

The conversation broadens into a sweeping meditation on what military service teaches you about America — and where Pasciuti worries the country is heading. He calls the military one of the last bastions of the American dream, where opportunity is real but has to be earned, and argues that a culture promoting service to the greater good over the accumulation of wealth would make America measurably healthier.. Pasciuti is openly worried about political leadership infecting the values of the military, makes the case that empathy must be viewed as a strength rather than a weakness in military leadership, and insists his book is political but not partisan — it's about values. He offers a vital warning that the Taliban proved asymmetrical warfare can defeat a stronger foe, that drone warfare is dangerously dehumanizing combat by reducing casualties to dollars and cents, and that the most important thing any soldier carries home is their soul intact — something he says becomes harder every year as the social contract between America and its veterans erodes. Pasciuti describes seeing fear rather than hatred in the eyes of a dying enemy combatant, a moment that has stayed with him, and explains why he can't support any politician who describes a political opponent as an enemy. He shares his experience running for city council and personally knocking on thousands of doors, his frustration with the financial barriers to entry in modern politics, and his belief that current discourse simply doesn't allow for real dialogue. He closes with the most powerful observation of the episode, made for Memorial Day: the holiday isn't about those who came home — it's about those who didn't — and anyone calling for war should be required to first sit down and have a conversation with a Gold Star family.

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Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 AJ Pasciuti (Dark Horse) joins the Chuck ToddCast

02:00 If you wrote the book 10 years ago, how would it have been different?

03:30 You gain extra perspective about “why” when more time has passed

04:15 Leadership is currently in very short supply

06:15 The book is a love letter and thank you to people who shaped AJ’s life

08:15 The military is one of the last bastions of the American dream

09:15 Was 16 years old on 9/11 and the attack inspired AJ to enlist at 17

10:15 How did you identify that you had the skills to be a sniper?

11:45 Gunnery Sgt. Jackson helped set AJ on his trajectory

12:30 What is training for a sniper like?

13:30 Attention to details is the trait that weeds out most sniper candidates

14:15 Snipers have to be self-dependent, must rely on yourself for survival

15:30 Snipers are meant to combat the enemy emotionally, scare them

16:15 “Juba” may not have been just one enemy sniper & hunted Americans

16:45 Juba uploaded videos of sniper kills of Americans to the internet

17:30 Watching the videos allowed marines to understand Juba’s patterns

18:00 Set up a trap for Juba and Juba fell into it

19:00 AJ knew they had killed Juba within minutes

20:00 Caught a glint of the lens of a Sony handycam to spot Juba

21:15 AJ may have pulled the trigger, but it was an entire team that got him

22:45 Marines were shocked that people would fight for a tyrant like Saddam

23:30 We viewed the enemies as terrorists, they viewed themselves as freedom fighters

25:15 Does the message to the troops today seem different than when you served?

26:15 When we send Americans into conflict, it must be for a just cause

26:45 There’s a responsibility that comes with having the greatest military in history

27:45 Are you worried political leadership is infecting the values of the military?

28:45 Leadership needs to project values people are inspired to defend

30:30 Military leadership needs to view empathy as a strength, not a weakness

31:30 The book is political but not partisan. It’s about values

33:15 A culture that promotes services to the greater good is healthier

35:00 If the culture promotes service over wealth, we’d be better off

35:30 Mandatory service in Israel has helped to bond their society

38:00 Service strips away the illusion that we succeed alone

39:15 Veterans aren’t easily categorized in their politics

40:00 Military provides an opportunity, but you have to earn it

42:00 Competitive advantage for the military is to think, adapt & react quicker

43:15 Marine culture should create  soldiers that are problem solvers

44:15 Taliban found that asymmetrical warfare could defeat a stronger foe

46:30 We have to better prepare for asymmetrical warfare

47:15 The American Revolution was fought with asymmetrical warfare

48:00 Drone warfare dehumanizes war. Casualties counted in dollars and cents

49:15 War is a chess game, and modern tech has leveled the playing field

51:15 Have to avoid being dehumanized by war

52:00 Saw an enemy combatant dying, saw fear in his eyes, not hatred

52:45 Wrote the book not to glorify war, but to tell the realities of it

54:15 The hardest part of coming home was doing so with your soul intact

55:30 The social contract with our soldiers must be protected

56:45 How are you able to publicly express your experience when many can’t?

59:00 Can’t support someone that says a political opponent is an enemy

1:00:00 Tell us about your podcast “Combat Story”

1:01:30 Ran for city council, personally knocked on thousands of doors

1:03:00 Our current politics doesn’t allow for dialogue

1:05:15 There’s a financial barrier to entry into politics

1:08:00 Memorial Day is tough, it’s about those who didn’t come home

1:08:30 Anyone calling for war should have a conversation with a gold star family

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