Peter Garrett has been an unstoppable force of Australian music for decades.

As the iconic frontman of Midnight Oil, a grassroots activist, and a former Federal Parliamentarian, he's spent a lifetime driving change: from the pubs of Sydney to the remote outback communities that reshaped the band's sound, from the floor of Parliament to the world's biggest stages. He's never stopped pushing.

But beneath the towering public persona lies something unexpected. When Zan Rowe gave him the theme "Songs of Change," Peter Garrett revealed a softer, surprisingly open side: a man moved to tears by music, still searching for love and meaning, and still driven by hope in a world that often feels hopeless.

He traces it all back to a suburban childhood where his parents spun protest records on a gramophone, through the tragic, sudden loss of both parents as a young man, to the formation of Midnight Oil with Rob Hirst and Jim Moginie, a partnership that would define Australian rock for half a century. He recalls the 1986 Blackfella Whitefella tour through remote Indigenous communities with Warumpi Band as the experience that moved him more deeply than playing to 50,000 people in Rio or New York. "Nothing affected me like actually being in that environment," he says. "We were visitors, and we were treated with great generosity."

He speaks with raw emotion about the loss of Rob Hirst, his drummer, his sparring partner, his family, and the alchemy that made Midnight Oil undeniable. "If you're gonna die on a hill, die on a hill that's got meaning." On the future of the band without Rob, he's candid but open: "The doors are open. But it may not happen at all."

He reflects on his years in federal parliament, the criticism he faced for wearing a suit, and the idea of service that drove him to enter politics in the first place. He connects Bruce Springsteen's live performance of "War" in the Trump era to Australia's own opportunity to be "a different kind of modern nation." And he closes with Sarah Blasko's "Without," landing on a truth that ties everything together: "You can only be a hopeful person if you actually understand what love is."

This episode was filmed for the new season of Take 5 with Zan Rowe on ABC TV and ABC iview. Filmed at the Oxford Art Factory in Sydney, Peter Garrett came ready to share, and what unfolded was a conversation about music, loss, service, and love that goes far beyond the public persona. As Peter himself says, the two constants in his life have been music and change. This is the envelope within which he writes all his letters.

Peter Garrett's song choices:

• Peter, Paul & Mary - 'Go Tell It On The Mountain'
• Warumpi Band - 'From The Bush'
• DOBBY - 'Dirrpi Yuin Patjulinya'
• Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band - 'War' (live)
• Sarah Blasko - 'Without'

00:00 Introduction: A Life Punctuated by Music and Change

01:46 A New Season of Take 5 with Zan Rowe

02:15 The Theme: Songs of Change, and a Softer Side of Peter Garrett

02:55 "The Two Constants in My Life": Music and Change

03:21 Peter, Paul & Mary - 'Go Tell It On The Mountain'

03:30 Growing Up in a Musical Household: Gershwin, Rodgers & Hammerstein, and a Gramophone

06:40 Hearing Protest Records as a Nine-Year-Old: "I Had No Idea It Was a Protest Song"

09:32 Peter Garrett's First Band: Devil's Breakfast, and How Farm Became Midnight Oil

10:14 Warumpi Band - 'From The Bush'

10:45 "A Very Punk Song": Why This Song Leaves Everything Else in the Dust

12:55 Music That's Self-Absorbed vs. Music That Speaks Directly

15:35 Midnight Oil's 1986 Tour to Remote Indigenous Communities with Warumpi Band

16:30 "Nothing Affected Me Like Being in That Environment": A Sliding Door Moment

18:49 How the Outback Tour Influenced 'Beds Are Burning' and Diesel and Dust

20:45 Returning to Kintore in 2017: "What Took You So Long to Come Back?"

22:33 DOBBY - 'Dirrpi Yuin Patjulinya'

23:10 A Butcherbird Call as the Melodic Heart: "He's Done What I've Been Trying For Years"

25:20 "The Most Important and Precious Commodity We Have": Music, Nature, and the Murray-Darling

26:35 Rob Hirst Tribute at the APRA Awards: Six Drummers, The Presets, and a Surprise Reveal

29:51 The Alchemy of Rob Hirst: "I Just Looked at Them and Went, Wow"

31:10 "If You're Gonna Die on a Hill, Die on a Hill That's Got Meaning"

32:20 Losing Rob Hirst: "Physically Not Here, But Essentially? No Way. Still Here."

34:39 The Future of Midnight Oil: "The Doors Are Open. But It May Not Happen at All."

36:18 Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band - 'War' (Live)

36:50 Springsteen in the Trump Era: "He's Really Risen to the Moment"

39:00 Music and Politics: "You Need Them Both for Change"

41:29 Inside Federal Parliament: Service, Suits, and Being Called Naive

43:23 Hope as the Antidote to Apathy: "It Is People Acting That Makes the Difference"

45:27 Sarah Blasko - 'Without'

46:00 "You Can Only Be a Hopeful Person If You Understand What Love Is"

49:33 Doris: 40 Years of Marriage, Three Daughters, and the Eye of the Cyclone

52:37 Looking Forward, Not Back: "My Most Precious Resource Is Time"

54:24 Zan's Final Reflections: A Stunning and Poetic End

54:55 Next Time: Shania Twain, From Poverty in Timmins to 40 Million Albums

This episode was filmed for a new season of Take 5 with Zan Rowe on ABC TV and ABC iview. You can stream the whole season on ABC iview now.

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