In the wake of twin disasters two decades apart, how do we make sense of why they happened?

In episode four, we find out what happened on the very first flight after Columbia — and ask whether NASA changed at all.

To hear more podcast episodes from hosts Fiona Pepper and Dr Karl Kruszelnicki about the legacy the 1986 Challenger space shuttle disaster left on culture, space exploration and high-risk decision making, search ‘Science Friction: The Challenger Legacy podcast’ from Radio National (RN) on the ABC Listen App (Australia), or wherever you get your podcasts.

Guests:

Mike CiannilliFormer Columbia integration systems engineer, NASA

Miles O'BrienAerospace correspondent, CNN

Adam HigginbothamAuthor, Challenger: A True Story of Heroism and Disaster on the Edge of Space

Mark MaierDistinguished professor of leadership, Chapman University, California

Eileen CollinsFormer astronaut; commander, STS-114

Credits:

• Presenters: Fiona Pepper and Karl Kruszelnicki
• Reporter: Fiona Pepper
• Senior Producer: James Bullen
• Series Producer: Jonathan Webb
• Executive Producer: Petria Ladgrove
• Sound Engineer: Tim Jenkins
• Archives Research: Lisa Chidlow, Michael Osmond

This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal and Menang Noongar peoples.