He served as U.S. Ambassador to NATO. He was Ambassador to Greece. And most recently, he represented the United States in Beijing. He also spent thirteen years in the senior leadership of the U.S. State Department. Nicholas Burns is one of the most seasoned American diplomats of his generation.In our conversation, he speaks candidly about whether China is a systemic rival, what it actually means in practice, why Washington must judge Beijing by actions—not rhetoric—and where the greatest risks of miscalculation lie today. We covered trade, innovation, Taiwan, alliances, human rights, and the realities of an increasingly multipolar world—without illusions.