In this episode, host Gabby Lisi talks with doctoral candidate and theologian Charlotte Jacobs about her new co-edited volume, Queering Theology, the erasure of reproductive labor in Christian narratives, and why queer theology must inherently be liberation theology. Jacobs challenges the mainstream German theological discourse that often reduces queer theology to a harmless plea for inclusion, pushing back against the idea that it is acceptable to be queer only as long as you fit neatly into the existing system. Instead, she approaches "queering" as an active verb—a practice that disrupts capitalist production, the social reproduction of gender, and systems that oppress marginalized people.

Gabby and Charlotte dive deeply into Charlotte's specific chapter, "The Silencing of Mary: Queering Labor as the Intersection of Everything." They explore how the traditional Christian nativity scene completely sanitizes the intense, physical, and bloody reality of childbirth, rendering Mary an invisible, passive figure. By highlighting Natalie Lennard's striking photograph "Creation of Man," Jacobs reinstates the "blood, sweat, and cries" of reproductive labor, dismantling the pervasive "white male working-class myth" and recognizing caregiving and childbirth as essential, exploited labor.

Key Points

• Mainstream queer theology often relies on apologetics, seeking inclusion within the current system rather than attempting to dismantle it.
• Queering is not merely a static identity, but an active practice that questions the social production and reproduction of the world.
• True queer theology must be fundamentally rooted in liberation theology and materialist social analysis.
• The historical erasure of Marxist analysis in the works of prominent theologians, such as Dorothee Sölle, intentionally deprives their theology of its radical, anti-capitalist edge.
• Traditional depictions of the nativity render the intense physical labor of childbirth invisible, silencing Mary and sanitizing the reality of giving birth.
• Reproductive labor and caregiving are essential forms of work that are often heavily exploited and overlooked under capitalism.
• Addressing class and labor requires moving past the "white male working-class myth" to recognize how gender, class, and labor deeply intersect.

About Charlotte Jacobs

Charlotte Jacobs has been a doctoral candidate in systematic theology and ethics at Friedrich Schiller University Jena since 2023. She is a scholarship recipient of the Rosa Luxemburg Foundation. Her dissertation explores the significance of the concept of class in Protestant theology and examines the relevance of class analysis to intersectional ethics. Her research focuses heavily on materialist queer feminism, theological gender studies, and the intersection of antifeminism and religious rights. 

She also wrote the Wendlin Cook blog posts:

What Did You Do for a Living, Mary? https://www.religionandjustice.org/blog/jacobs-christmas-2025 

Challenging the Myth of the Middle https://www.religionandjustice.org/blog/challenging-the-myth-of-the-middle-reflections-on-class-in-theology

Follow on Instagram: @herzkopfhandtheologie https://www.instagram.com/herzkopfhandtheologie/

Resources Mentioned

• Queering Theology, co-edited by Charlotte Jacobs, Sonja Tomeier, and Jörg Rieger (Released June 2026).
• Queer Theology: Beyond Apologetics by Linn Marie Tonstad.
• Dorothee Sölle's theological works.
• "Creation of Man" (photograph) by Natalie Lennard.
• The Wendland-Cook Program in Religion and Justice: https://www.religionandjustice.org
• Religion and Justice Podcast: https://religionandjustice.buzzsprout.com

About Religion and Justice
Religion and Justice is a podcast from the Wendland-Cook Program in Religion and Justice at Vanderbilt Divinity School. We explore the intersections of class, religion, labor, and ecology, uncovering how these forces shape the work of justice and solidarity. Each episode offers space for investigation, education, and organizing through conversations with scholars, organizers, and practitioners.

Learn more at religionandjustice.org

The show is currently produced by Peterson Toscano http://www.petersontoscano.com 

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