Hon Phil Goff is a former New Zealand Minister of Trade, Foreign Affairs, Defence, Education, Housing, and Justice. In 2016 he was elected mayor of the Auckland 'Supercity'. We discuss that experience, contrasting central and local government, as well as his role negotiating the first Western Free Trade Agreement with China in 2008.

Full transcript, with inline notes and links is available at alethios.substack.com

Auckland Skyline image from Ssiyamalan.