David Plotz talks with journalist Annie Lowrey about her new book The Time Tax: How the Government Wastes Our Time—and How to Fix It, an investigation into the hours Americans lose to broken bureaucracy, from 12-hour tax filings to multiyear waits for housing vouchers and building permits. Lowrey traces the waste to what she calls the “ordeal mechanism,” the deliberate friction built into some programs to weed out the “undeserving,” alongside outdated technology like the COBOL code still running state unemployment systems. She and Plotz discuss why the burden falls hardest on poor people and immigrants, why Social Security remains one of the few programs that treats recipients with dignity, and why DOGE did nothing to fix any of it. 

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