In this episode, Andrew is joined by Dr Gillian Bartle, lecturer in education, researcher, and Research Lead for the International Physical Literacy Association.

Drawing on decades of experience across physical education, teacher education, further education, and academia, Gillian reflects on how we learn to move and what gets lost when movement is over-structured, over-measured, or over-scripted.

The conversation begins with Gillian’s journey from PE teacher to philosopher of physical education, shaped by early discomfort with assessment systems that valued written knowledge over embodied knowing.

Together, Andrew and Gillian explore physical literacy as a disposition rather than a programme or policy: an ongoing relationship with movement rooted in meaning, confidence, curiosity, and lived experience. They discuss the risks of normalising developmental benchmarks, the limits of fitness-led approaches, and why valuing movement cannot be reduced to sets, reps, or gym memberships.

Woven throughout is a broader question: do we, as a society, actually value movement — and if not, what might help restore it as part of everyday life?

Related links:

IPLA

Exploring the Notion of Literacy Within Physical Literacy: A Discussion Paper

Physical Literacy as a Foundation for Physical Education in Scottish Primary Schools