For much of the 21st century, the U.S. economy was built around cheap money. Today, though, interest rates are rising, and borrowing is getting much more expensive. At the same time, the federal government is running huge deficits while governments and companies around the world are taking on enormous amounts of debt. Derek talks with returning guest Conor Sen, author of the Housing Frame newsletter, about why interest rates have climbed, what’s driving this new age of debt, and how it could change the economy for years to come.

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Host: Derek Thompson

Guest: Conor Sen

Producer: Devon Baroldi

Additional Production Support: Ben Glicksman

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