If you’ve ever sat through a personality test during hiring and thought, “This feels a bit like corporate astrology”—you’re not wrong. In this episode, I talk with Jason Hreha, Founder & CEO of Persona, about why so many workplace assessments are built on outdated theories and questionable science, and how to separate the gimmicks from the tools that actually help you hire better. We dig into what reliability and predictive validity really mean, why they’re non-negotiables for any credible test, and where most HR teams go wrong in applying behavioral science to talent decisions.

Jason also shares his work on a new leadership-focused assessment that aims to measure two very different—but equally valuable—leadership archetypes: transformational and operational. From structuring interviews to making personality data a meaningful (but not overblown) part of your hiring process, this conversation is a crash course in evidence-based talent evaluation.

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