Debora Cahn, the writer behind The Diplomat, Homeland, The West Wing, and Grey's Anatomy, joins Kate McCann and Sir Richard Dearlove to talk about writing political drama in an era when reality keeps outpacing fiction. Debora explains how "spy camp" research trips with real diplomats, spies, and generals shape her scripts, why she resists making her stories too close to current events, and what she learned about the strange double life of foreign service officers: the loneliness of constant relocation, the jockeying for a seat in the room, and the quiet patriotism that keeps them showing up. Sir Richard, a former head of MI6, adds his own view from the other side of the table, including a story about deliberately keeping a British ambassador out of the room in Washington.

In this episode:

00:00 Cold Open

02:58 Russia Story Rewritten

04:11 Borgen Inspiration

06:15 Spy Camp Research

08:22 Diplomacy In The Dirt

09:35 Ambassadors Real And Fake

18:39 CIA And Embassy Dynamics

21:24 From West Wing To Diplomat

23:14 No Evil Characters

24:29 MI6 Reality Check

29:59 Demystifying Government Work

31:12 Female President Choice

33:51 Future Of Ambassadors

Hosted by Sir Richard Dearlove (former MI6 Chief) and Kate McCann (Political Editor at Times Radio). 

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