Paul McNulty has had at least three careers. After graduating from law school, he spent 20 years in public service, rising to the top levels of the U.S. Department of Justice. Then he moved to one of the nation’s – some might say the world’s – top law firms. But service was in his blood, and in 2014 he became president of his alma mater, Grove City College. He has just retired from that position, after an 11 year stint.

At a time when lots of colleges are shutting down, Grove City – under McNulty’s leadership – has thrived. I asked Paul to be on the program today to do a retrospective of his career, and our conversation ranges widely, from his time in government, to the death of his son due to cancer in 2012, and his involvement with Keith and Kristyn Getty and their efforts to bring theologically rich and musically excellent hymns to the modern church.

But the center of our conversation today is a discussion about the challenges facing higher education, and how Christian colleges can meet those challenges.

Paul McNulty spoke to me from his home in Charleston, South Carolina.