Rebecca and John are joined by their Vanity Fair colleagues Chris Murphy and Hillary Busis to break down all those surprise winners on Emmys night. They also discuss why Nate Bargatze struggled as a host and that controversial acceptance speech countdown clock. Finally, they each pitch one dramatic change that could fix the Emmys and make it more appealing in the future.

Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices