Saudi Arabia, Türkiye, and Pakistan have just signed a new NATO-like defence pact. The Mecca Joint Defence Agreement commits each country to respond in the event of an attack on the other. So what does this say about how they feel about the reliability of the US as a defence partner? What could it mean in the event of an Indian attack on Pakistan? And does it mean Saudi Arabia will have better capabilities to stop the Houthis from Yemen attacking ships passing through the Strait of Hormuz or the Red Sea?

• Guest: Professor Simon Mabon, Professor of International Politics at Lancaster University, specialising in Saudi-Iranian relations, and author of The Struggle for Supremacy in the Middle East: Saudi Arabia and Iran, Cambridge University Press (2023)
• Producer: Catherine Zengerer