The idea that white people — and white men in particular — face discrimination has become something of an obsession on the American right.

It’s a view that my guest this week shares. Jeremy Carl was nominated to a State Department post by the Trump administration, which sparked a lot of controversy. Carl is the author of “The Unprotected Class,” in which he makes the case that white Americans are in danger of becoming “second-class citizens.” 

I wanted to know what he thinks constitutes anti-white discrimination and whether focusing on it inevitably leads to white nationalism. After we taped this interview, Carl withdrew his nomination, acknowledging that he lacked enough support to be confirmed.

• 0:00 - Intro
• 01:59 - Jeremy Carl’s trajectory and State Department Nomination
• 05:24 - The Civil Rights Act and rise of anti-white Discrimination
• 12:20 - The impact of immigration on white Americans
• 24:53 - The "radicalization" of D.E.I.
• 37:37 - Carl’s provocative language and controversial tweets
• 51:06 - “White culture” vs. “civic nationalism”
• 01:01:00 - The fours pillars of “Americanness”

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

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