John welcomes ABC News chief Washington correspondent Jonathan Karl to discuss his new book, “Retribution: Donald Trump and the Campaign That Changed America.” The author of three previous bestsellers about 45/47, Karl describes how Trump has – and hasn’t – changed in the 30-plus years since the two first met; how Trump's desire for vengeance against his political foes became the driving force of his 2024 campaign and has dominated his second term in office; and his complex love-hate relationship with the press (with Karl as a prime example). Karl also weighs in on how much sway Steve Bannon actually has with Trump, and Nancy Pelosi's behind-the-scenes role in ending Joe Biden’s reelection campaign.

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