Vanessa Frake spent decades inside Britain’s prison system - from Holloway to Wormwood Scrubs - and rose to become a prison governor. In this conversation, she describes what she says changed inside UK prisons as Islam grew, why prison authorities sometimes separate high-profile inmates like Tommy Robinson, and what it’s like trying to keep order when numbers, staff, and politics collide.

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We also talk about foreign national prisoners, deportation delays, staffing cuts, and why recruitment standards have fallen. Vanessa explains how prisoners manipulate officers, why female officer scandals keep hitting headlines, and how prisons handle complaints and “minefield” issues like religion, gender, and trans prisoners.

Vanessa’s book is The Governor.

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Topics covered

• Islam in British prisons and Wormwood Scrubs
• Tommy Robinson and separation in prison
• Terrorism cases, safety, and control
• Foreign national prisoners and deportation backlog
• Staffing crisis, recruitment, and prison standards
• Corruption, coercion, and media narratives
• Rehabilitation and what the public gets wrong about prison

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