Episode 269- The Nightmare Before Christmas

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Searchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 269 Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Second Amendment, New Jersey Democrats, gun laws, machine gun conversion devices, digital

instructions, firearm components, gun owner gulag, cash bail, pre-trial detention, carry killer bill,

sensitive places, gun rights, constitutional rights, gun lawyer.

SPEAKERS

Evan Nappen, Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen

Evan Nappen 00:15

I’m Evan Nappen.

Teddy Nappen 00:17

And I’m Teddy Nappen.

Evan Nappen 00:19

And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, the New Jersey Democrats are going to give gun owners a

Nightmare Before Christmas. What they are doing is pushing a package of Second Amendment

oppression upon us, and they decided that the perfect time to do it is right before Christmas. On

Monday, December 22, the Senate will be having a voting session. They’re going to be looking at bills

that we’re going to talk about right now, and you need to take action. You know, you need to let the

legislators know that you oppose this. Hopefully you belong to the Association of New Jersey Rifle &

Pistol Clubs. If not, you need to join. That’s anjrpc.org. They send out the news releases where you can

immediately take action and let the legislature know your feelings on their oppression of our Second

Amendment rights as they continue to attack them.

Evan Nappen 01:33

Now, we have some very problematic laws that they’re going to be trying to jam through, and I want to

make sure that you’re aware of what they are and what they mean. So, we have what is A-4974, and its

companion in the Senate is S-3893. (https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bill-search/2024/S3893) This bill

establishes criminal penalties for sale and possession of machine gun conversion devices. Now, of

course, these things are already banned. They’re already banned under federal law and state law, but

New Jersey just can’t ban something enough, right? So, they’re just duplicating here even more bans

upon bans. This is supposedly addressing so-called Glock triggers, but New Jersey usually finds a way

to expand it to all kinds of other nonsense. We’ve seen these things lead off into false charges over

devices that are not designed to convert to machine guns, but instead designed to simply improve

accuracy and a trigger or those kind of things. So, these things are just problematic, and they’re just

putting bans on top of bans. And they just want to make sure their name is on a piece of law where

they’re “doing something about it”. You know, to sell red meat to their base. So, we have that to deal

with.

Page – 1 – of 10Evan Nappen 03:16

Additionally, we have A-4975 and the Senate companion bill is S-3894.

(https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bill-search/2024/A3894) This bill establishes a crime of possessing digital

instructions to illegally manufacture firearms and firearm components. Now, keep in mind, back in 2018

Murphy signed a law banning the use and sale these digital files already, but this bill is even worse. The

mere possession of the files will result in incredibly harsh penalties, even if you unknowingly possess

them on a long forgotten computer, etc. So, New Jersey is turning firearm information, pure firearm

digital information, into the equivalent of possessing child pornography. Simple possession of the digital

file itself.

Evan Nappen 04:20

It doesn’t matter that you never had any intention to actually build a firearm, but this gun information is

itself being turned into contraband. Now, of course, this brings in First Amendment issues as well as

Second Amendment issues, and I’m sure this will as well be subject to challenge. But nonetheless, it

puts gun owners at risk that utilize internet and such for downloads of different things. Strictly for

informational purposes. Even though you had no intent to 3D print a gun or not, or to use it with a CNC

machine to make guns or even gun parts. So, this bill is another oppression of Second Amendment

rights, and this time an oppression of First Amendment rights. But since when do Democrats care about

rights? So, you need to oppose this as well.

Evan Nappen 05:25

There is another bill, Assembly 4978, and the Senate companion is 3897.

(https://pub.njleg.gov/Bills/2024/S4000/3897_I1.HTM) Now, this bill requires the Attorney General to

report data regarding shootings that did not result in bodily injury. This type of data accumulation is

used so then they can twist it into political fodder to further pass other Second Amendment oppression

laws. This is their game. So, this is a step in, you know, focusing on the potential discharge law, making

accidents into crimes, and using it to become automatic licensing disqualifiers, what become essentially

per se felonies. This is how their evil works. This is what they do. This is their machinations, and this is

the beginnings of them laying the groundwork to do that very thing. We’ve seen this playbook before,

as they put data together that they then abuse in the manner that suits their purposes. So, of course,

we have to fight this.

Evan Nappen 06:53

Another incredibly serious other bill that’s in the Nightmare Before Christmas is Assembly 4981. The

companion is S-3900. (https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bill-search/2024/A4981) Now, this bill is a Gun

Owner Gulag enhancement bill. This law will take the Gun Owner Gulag and make it even worse. So,

as you should be familiar, but I want to make sure you are, New Jersey has the Gun Owner Gulag,

which is New Jersey’s elimination of cash bail. In getting rid of cash bails, like so many progressive blue

states took those actions to do that in the specifically during the, you know, defund police movement

and all that. You normally hear about the cashless bails being utilized, where actual criminals, bona fide

bad guys, you know, rapists, murders, etc, are put in a revolving door and released very quickly out in

the street, particularly if they have other characteristics that the Left is favoring, such as being, you

Page – 2 – of 10know, illegally in the country and things like that. They want those people out fast. So, it gets used in

that way.

Evan Nappen 08:15

But when it comes to weaponization of it against gun owners, well, that’s a different story. They want to

imprison us. Okay? So they want to make sure that any gun owner that has a problem, well, they’re

going to be subject to the Gulag, where they’re going to be held without bail until their trial, because

there is no more bail in New Jersey. And what happens is the prosecutor seeks what is called pre-trial

detention. And if pre-trial detention is granted, you’re going to sit in jail, having been proven guilty of

nothing, until your trial, and that can be months or years. So, this is the Gulag, and that’s how it

operates. Well, that’s bad enough. We fight these Gulag cases all the time, trying to get gun owners out

because just about any gun offense is a felony level. New Jersey calls them crimes, and they’re

normally warrant offenses. You get arrested and then you’re put through the Gulag where you’re held

for 48 hours while the prosecutor decides whether to seek pre-trial detention or not.

Evan Nappen 09:20

And their policies are, generally, in every gun case, they seek the Gulag, which is to hold you without

bail. So, you’re going to be held at least, normally, another five days before your hearing, where your

attorney will finally get to argue to get you out. And if your attorney is not successful in doing that, you

are staying in with no bail. Well, this bill is an enhancement to that. It will allow the court to take even

more time on any firearm offense where they get to hold you for yet another seven days, so that an

operability report can somehow be provided regarding the operability of a firearm, which is often

irrelevant to the criminal charge, especially in New Jersey. Operability is not even necessarily required

for a firearm conviction, but here the abuse of it will be added into the Gulag’s initial holding of the gun

owner. So, now you’re going to be arrested on the warrant charge on whatever the allegation of the

firearm offense is, even though you’re innocent, it won’t matter. It’s a gun offense. So, the 48 hours, the

prosecutor by way of their policy is going to hold you seeking pre-trial detention. Then that pre-trial

detention hearing has to get scheduled within, arguably, five days, and normally it’s about that, five

days, before you have the hearing.

Evan Nappen 10:57

But if we get to that hearing and they say, oh no, we want another seven days, at least, here the seven

days to get an operability report. So, now you’re going to be in jail for approximately two weeks, two

weeks, without bail, because there is no bail. And that’s just to get you to the hearing so your attorney

can try to argue to defeat the prosecutor’s motion for pre-trial detention. And they’re going to now throw

this into the mix. So, you can figure with any gun arrest, you know, you’re falsely accused of being in a

“sensitive place” or you’re falsely accused of possession of an assault firearm, or you’re falsely accused

of unlawful possession of your handgun. You know all kind of false charges and gun rights oppression

that I deal with all the time in practice. Well, you’re going to be at least two weeks in jail now before we

can even get you out so we can fight the charge that will eventually get you acquitted of. Isn’t that cute?

And that’s if your attorney knows how to get you out and succeeds in doing so. Because if not, you’ll

just sit in jail until your trial to finally prove that. So, this is the just horrible addition to the Gun Owner

Gulag.

Page – 3 – of 10Evan Nappen 12:20

These bills need to be fought, and they need to be fought vigorously. Make sure you make your voices

heard. Make sure you belong to ANJRPC, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They

have a full-time paid lobbyist. They have a vigorous process here trying to fight this, but of course,

we’re dealing with a state where it is a tremendous battle for the forces of constitutional rights

protection. Here to succeed, it’s a difficult, challenging environment, but we have to keep up the fight.

We have to make our voices known, and we can make changes. As a matter of fact, that Gulag bill, the

Association was able to change the original form where it was an indefinite amount of time until they

finally got the report. At least it’s been modified to a mere seven days extra. So, now it’s only two weeks

in jail, guilty of nothing. Simply because you lawfully exercised your rights in New Jersey. So, these

laws are terrible. They are more oppression from our oppressors. We need to fight it and make sure

you do.

Evan Nappen 13:44

Now, on a little bit of a Christmas gift here, despite the nightmare that the New Jersey Democrats are

placing upon us. I do want to mention that thanks to President Trump and his appointment of judges

throughout the land, not the least of which, of course, is the Supreme Court, getting three conservative

constitutionalist judges there. But also his ability to add to the judges of the Third Circuit Court of

Appeals. And because of President Trump particularly adding the last two judges that are constitutional

judges that understand the significance of the Second Amendment, the full panel of 14 judges has

agreed to hear the appeal in the Siegel versus Platkin, which is the Carry Killer lawsuit that challenges

all these sensitive places and the other onerous restrictions that were put forward in the Carry Killer bill.

And as you may know, the initial appeal with the three-judge panel, the three-judge panel that had ruled

not tremendously in our favor, has been wiped out, wiped out. Now, the full panel of 14 judges are

going to hear and decide the Carry Killer bill. This is very good news for us.

Evan Nappen 15:26

This is something that makes me cautiously optimistic that we’re going to see some protection and our

Second Amendment rights enforced, and it’s very, very important. Of course, New Jersey fought tooth

and nail to try to stop the full panel from granting the en banc full panel, but the Association, particularly

my good friend and colleague, Dan Schmutter, was successful here in having that full panel take the

case. So, this will also bode well, because by getting a decision that knocks out most, if not all, of the

Carry Killer bill, it’ll also lay the groundwork for the Supreme Court of the United States. If we start

getting split decisions in the circuits over these sensitive place gambit that the Second Amendment

oppressionists have pulled after Bruen to try to limit our rights, we may, in fact, see even a national

case killing it permanently for the country. But here in New Jersey, we stand in good stead at the

moment.

Evan Nappen 16:47

Keep in mind that, at the moment, where can you carry and what are the categories where you can and

can’t carry right now, at the current state. Remember, you cannot lawfully carry, even with a New

Jersey carry permit, within 100 feet of a public gathering, demonstration or event requiring a

Government permit. You’re still barred from zoos, parks, beaches, recreational facilities or areas owned

or controlled by the state, county or local government unit designated as a gun-free zone. Publicly

Page – 4 – of 10owned or leased libraries or museums. Bars or restaurants where alcohol is served and any other sites

or facilities where alcohol is sold for consumption on the premises. Entertainment facilities. Casinos and

related facilities. And healthcare facilities.

Evan Nappen 17:41

Now you currently can lawfully carry with a New Jersey carry permit, of course, while this appeal is not

resolved. These things are still blocked, though, and you’re able to carry, and this isn’t a complete list.

But essentially in vehicles. As you may recall, the carjacker protection law that was built into the Carry

Killer law, saying that you couldn’t have your loaded gun on your person in your vehicle. That is still

blocked, and we are, we may carry in our vehicle, in that manner. Private property open to the public is

no longer and still is not a sensitive place. In public film locations, we are able to carry. Additionally, the

ruling is still in effect blocking the insurance requirement. As you may recall, at some point, Murphy

issued an Executive Order banning the sale of so-called murder insurance, where you had gun owner

protection programs, and then proceeded in the Carry Killer bill to mandate by law that you get actual

murder insurance. Meaning insurance if someone commits an intentional act with a firearm, essentially

murdering somebody. That’s been blocked. So, we don’t have to have insurance to have a carry

license. And blocking certain permit procedures and requirements that were more administrative in

nature.

Evan Nappen 19:23

So, this is where we’re standing. But the good news is, with the full panel reviewing it, I’m very excited

to see that outcome, and so should you. So, there is still hope. There is hope that the judiciary is going

to speak for our rights, and that same full panel will be also considering New Jersey’s magazine ban

and so-called assault firearm ban. So we are hopeful for some very good outcomes here, and we’ll

keep you informed here on Gun Lawyer.

Evan Nappen 20:07

Let me also mention our good friends at WeShoot. That’s where Teddy and I both shoot and where we

get our training. And you will love WeShoot. WeShoot is a great indoor range right in Lakewood,

conveniently off the Parkway. They constantly run great sales, and they have great service, a fantastic

pro shop and a state of the art range, great training. I really can’t give it high enough praise. We love

WeShoot, and so will you. Check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com. They have a great website with

beautiful photographs. And you don’t want to miss the WeShoot girls that are there posing with some of

the finest guns that you will ever see. So, make sure you go to WeShoot and take advantage of that

fantastic resource for gun owners, right in New Jersey.

Evan Nappen 21:11

And let me also shamelessly plug my book, which is New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun

law. Make sure you get the book, folks. You need this book. It is the guidebook to keeping you safe, out

of jail and not committing GOFUs in New Jersey. It’s 120 topics, all question and answer. It fills you in

so you will know what the law is. It is the guidebook used by thousands and thousands of gun owners

throughout New Jersey. You can get your copy today by going to EvanNappen.com. EvanNappen.com.

Hey, Teddy, what do you have for us today?

Page – 5 – of 10Teddy Nappen 21:56

Well, one of the things you know, it’s the holidays, Christmas, and everything’s coming along, and all

the wins that have been coming through, and all the crazy insanity that you’ve described. I always think

back to the show that you introduced me to, Paladin. There’s a particular episode, I think it was even

the Christmas episode where Paladin is there. It’s a whole deal with the fan, like, there’s a small, I think

it’s like a house living out there. And the ending line to the whole episode is, it’s Christmas. He’s saying

to the guy, it’s Christmas. This is the, this is the one day of the year where we pretend there’s no evil.

And that kind of sticks with me in the idea of this is supposed to be the time spent with family, and

particularly, we can pretend and not think about all the anti-gun jerks and the gun rights oppressors.

This is the time to enjoy Christmas movies, particular ones that involve firearms. So, as I was scanning

through the internet, I saw one, I love this article, the top 10 Christmas movies with guns.

(https://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/top-10-christmas-movies-with-guns/) Hey.

Evan Nappen 23:17

So, that is what Christmas should be about. Guns.

Teddy Nappen 23:22

Yeah, exactly. And to start things off, of course, they go with the most controversial one, which is Die

Hard.

Evan Nappen 23:31

Which we will agree is a Christmas movie.

Teddy Nappen 23:35

Correct. I’ve heard all the debates.

Evan Nappen 23:37

Ho, ho, ho. I have a machine gun. How does it get any less Christmas than that.

Teddy Nappen 23:42

And quite simply, it’s not Christmas without Hans Gruber falling off the Nakatomi building.

Evan Nappen 23:49

Yeah, and you know what gun he had, right?

Teddy Nappen 23:55

So, well, you had Bruce Willis with his Beretta 92 with the focus.

Evan Nappen 24:01

Of course.

Teddy Nappen 24:02

But there’s also the MP 5.

Page – 6 – of 10Evan Nappen 24:05

Yippie IA, Yippie Ki A.

Teddy Nappen 24:08

And the P7 M13s.

Evan Nappen 24:12

P7 that what Hans there, I believe, had.

Teddy Nappen 24:17

Correct. And it was very good gun play in that part, where he’s no bullets, and it tricks him. The next

one, this is actually, it’s one of those where it’s like, what the heck is this movie? I had to watch it,

though. I think you were there when we watched Fat Man.

Evan Nappen 24:36

Oh god, yeah.

Teddy Nappen 24:37

It is probably the funniest, like, weirdest film you could watch. We have Mel Gibson and is this whole

plot to murder Santa Claus. It’s him fighting, fighting Boyd Crowder from Justified. Walter Goggins.

Crazy gun play between a 1911 and the fat man using a Colt Walker.

Evan Nappen 25:06

Yep, definitely. It’s an entertaining film.

Teddy Nappen 25:12

Yeah, it’s just one of those. I was like, okay, interesting. Now, this is technically Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang,

which is a Christmas heist of a film. I don’t know if you ever saw it. With Robert Downey, Jr.

Evan Nappen 25:26

I may have.

Teddy Nappen 25:27

Kind of an action comedy. They’re carrying their Vector CP One.

Evan Nappen 25:34

Oh, Vectors are in it. Huh, okay.

Teddy Nappen 25:35

Yeah. And, of course, another HK P7. It’s kind of one of one of those, you kind of spot there. But I was

like, I didn’t realize it involved Christmas.

Page – 7 – of 10Teddy Nappen 25:44

The one I will highlight, though I always thought was funny, he put on Home Alone, one and two. Here’s

the reason. Because, remember, the kid, he plays that clip, the black and white movie where he keeps.

Evan Nappen 25:44

Well, you know, the P7 used to be the pistol of the New Jersey State Police, but they had over 40

accidental discharges with it, and they gave it up. And that’s because, although it was marketed as

being one of the safest guns, the problem is, it’s a front squeeze that cocks the gun, when you squeeze

the front. Unlike a 1911 that has a safety on the back, this squeeze cocks from the front. And the

problem is, if you, if you’re not practiced and trained well enough, when you draw the gun out of a

holster, you’re cocking it as you pull it out, and that creates a situation that is not exactly the safest

situation to be in. There were numerous ADs with that gun. So, something to keep in mind. I think

they’re cool and a very interesting design, but I remember seeing Superintendent Pagano talking about

it. And he basically said, hey, look, it’s not the gun’s fault. He’s blaming his men. How nice of him.

Yeah, right. So that was that episode of the gun, in theory, seeming like it may have been one of the

safest guns, but in reality, it was prone to needing a lot of training to make sure that you didn’t cock it

until you were ready to. So, there you go.

Evan Nappen 27:36

Oh yeah.

Teddy Nappen 27:36

The bad guys, oh yeah, yeah. Well, I believe you, but my tommy gun don’t. And it’s like, you’ve been

smooching with everybody. Snuffy, Dale, Leo, Little Mo with the gimpy leg, Bony Bob, Cliff, and the guy

thinks he’s actually like sleeping with all these individuals.

Evan Nappen 27:58

Great.

Teddy Nappen 27:59

Yeah. The Thompson 1921 AC sub machine gun. The actual movie is Angel With Filthy Souls.

Evan Nappen 28:08

Hmm huh. Okay.

Teddy Nappen 28:11

Yeah.

Evan Nappen 28:11

So, that was actually a clip from an actual movie?

Teddy Nappen 28:14

Yeah, that was funny. And, of course, The Christmas Story with the Red Ryder BB gun.

Page – 8 – of 10Evan Nappen 28:20

Oh, the classic of all classics. And in New Jersey, that’s a firearm. It’s not a BB, you know? It’s not just

a little old BB gun. There it is, bona fide, defined as a firearm.

Teddy Nappen 28:32

Yeah. And they threw in some honorable mentions, like White Christmas. Where it takes, the start is at

the Battle of the Bulge. So, you have the M1 Garand coming into play of that. And then.

Evan Nappen 28:46

As Patton said, the greatest battle rifle ever devised.

Teddy Nappen 28:51

I’d agree. And then you have Scrooged with Santa wielding the XM 556 mini gun.

Evan Nappen 29:00

Okay.

Teddy Nappen 29:02

And then also Bill Murray with his, remember, he had a stainless snub nose revolver because he’s

freaking out that a ghost is there.

Evan Nappen 29:10

Okay, yeah.

Teddy Nappen 29:12

They couldn’t determine that.

Evan Nappen 29:14

He didn’t do much with him and guns, but yeah. Unless it’s some gun for taking out ghosts, right? Ghost

Busters.

Teddy Nappen 29:22

Oh, and of course, our Majesty’s Secret Service, James Bond and Christmas, what more could you

want? With his Walther PPK.

Evan Nappen 29:33

Oh yeah, James Bond sometimes had some screwy gun stuff. I remember in one of them where he has

an AR7, and the guy’s talking about. And it’s a 25 caliber AR. I’m like, it’s not 25. It’s 22. But hey, what

do they know?

Teddy Nappen 29:52

Yeah, it’s, this is just a fun list, and it’s something I just kind of like, wow, I didn’t really consider some of

these as, like, Chrismas movies. But I guess so.

Page – 9 – of 10Evan Nappen 30:03

Well, as long as it has guns in it, we’ll declare them to be Christmas movies.

Teddy Nappen 30:08

Fair enough. If it has a gun and it’s a Christmas movie, that’s it.

Evan Nappen 30:11

That’s it. That’s the standard from now on. From now on, that’s the standard.

Teddy Nappen 30:16

There you go.

Evan Nappen 30:17

Oh, that’s good stuff, Teddy. And soon we’ll be enjoying Christmas guns. That’s the deal. That’s the

deal. Hey, it is very important that we discuss this week’s GOFU, which is the Gun Owner Fuck Up.

These are mistakes that actual clients make that causes them problems, expensive problems. You get

to learn for free. And this week’s GOFU is about printing. And I don’t mean printing with your computer

printer. I mean about your gun showing when you’re carrying concealed. Now, in New Jersey, it’s not

illegal to print. Believe it or not. A gun has to be concealed, but it doesn’t address printing while

concealed. However, in New Jersey, you don’t want to print. Because not only do we need to carry

concealed, but you want to keep that concealment private and secret.

Evan Nappen 31:20

New Jersey is loaded with all kinds of people that are scared of guns, aren’t used to guns, and they can

end up calling police because they think someone’s carrying a gun. And next thing you know, even

though you’re legal to carry. You also give away tactical advantage, if people can make you as

carrying. And this is an issue where individuals can make false accusations against you if they believe

that you’re carrying. So, you want to make sure you don’t print when you conceal carry in Jersey. Make

sure you are as discrete as possible. Also, you don’t want to inadvertently end up in a sensitive place

and have a gun identified on you because you’re printing. You shouldn’t be in a sensitive place, but if

you’re printing and in a sensitive place, then you’re going to have a bigger problem. So, be very

conscientious when you carry, whether or not you’re printing, or whether your method of carry allows

for inadvertent display of your firearm, even for a moment, because you want to stay discrete. You want

your concealed carry to be concealed carry, and ultimately that gives you, if nothing else, a tactical

advantage of surprise should you need your gun.

Evan Nappen 32:51

This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from

criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 2 33:01

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by

Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and

opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Page – 10 – of 10

Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E269_Transcript About The Host

Evan Nappen, Esq.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

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