In May 2025, the world adopted a landmark agreement to prepare for future pandemics. It was the product of 3 years of negotiation across deep political divisions, including the withdrawal of the United States from the World Health Organization. How did the countries with the smallest delegations build real influence at the table? How do health leaders keep people's health at the center of a deeply political process? And what does this achievement signal about cooperation in a divided world?

In this episode, host Garry Aslanyan explores these questions with two guests who bring deeply complementary perspectives. Anne-Claire Amprou is the French Ambassador for Global Health and co-chaired the intergovernmental negotiations that delivered the pandemic agreement. And joining her is Lia Tadesse Gebremedhin, Executive Director of the Harvard Ministerial Leadership Program at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health and former Minister of Health of Ethiopia, who helped build one African voice — 47 countries speaking together — during the negotiations.

Related episode documents, transcripts and other information can be found on our website.

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