Amanda Van Der Heiden could trot on a horse before she could walk. Her parents strapped her legs to the stirrups as a toddler. By age two, when she fell into the sandpit they trained in, they put her right back on before she was done crying. There was no discussion. You get back up. That was the whole lesson.

Decades later, with two degrees in psychology and a career built across some of the largest organizations in the country, Amanda has hit the same wall more than once: working 20-hour days, running teams across continents, and eventually burning out so completely that when she left one company, they replaced her with three full-time employees. She saw it as a badge of honor. It took her years to recognize the pattern for what it actually was.

On Episode 240 of Fine is a 4-Letter Word, Amanda talks with Lori Saitz about the horse farm childhood that built her resilience without a vocabulary for it, the psychology behind why executive presence is instantly recognizable even when it cannot be defined, the real difference between introversion and extroversion (it has nothing to do with how much you like people), and the framework she now uses to help leaders set their teams up to actually succeed instead of just survive.

She also shares her redefinition of failure — you either win or you learn — and why she believes the fear of trying is almost always worse than whatever you were afraid of in the first place.

Listen on all platforms:

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Timestamps:

• [00:00] Cold open: there is no choice, you get back up
• [00:39] Welcome and introduction: setting people up to excel
• [01:05] Raised on a horse farm: work ethic, determination, resilience
• [02:14] Empathy as a learned trait — echoing a recent conversation with Rob Scheer
• [03:21] Raised between Kentucky and Long Island: the dichotomy that shaped her adaptability
• [04:29] Too city for the country, too country for the city — and how that became a strength
• [05:05] Two-color hair, a Southern accent in New York, and never being able to blend in
• [06:08] The chameleon principle: adapting how you communicate without changing who you are
• [07:19] The horse story: strapped into the stirrups before she could walk
• [08:06] The sandpit: falling at two years old and being put right back on
• [09:53] Why staying down was never presented as an option — and the case for why it was actually safer
• [11:13] How the horse farm resilience shows up in her own parenting today
• [12:28] Letting her daughter struggle with a 25-pound shaving bag on purpose
• [13:31] The leadership philosophy: show the vision, let people find their own way there
• [15:14] Never having had a real manager in her entire corporate career
• [18:09] The leadership conference: watching executive presence in real time across three tiers of seniority
• [20:32] Why professional women have to be fine — and what that costs
• [22:03] The burnout pattern: 20-hour days, a team of 10 across two continents, 17,000 people
• [23:17] Getting replaced by three full-time employees — and thinking it was a compliment
• [23:48] Realizing the same burnout happened at a completely different company — the common denominator was her
• [24:55] What self-care actually means (hint: it is not a manicure)
• [25:41] Introversion and extroversion explained correctly: it is about refueling, not sociability
• [28:01] Win or learn: the redefinition of failure that removes the fear
• [31:20] Get Things Done — the song, the mantra, and the bias toward action
• [32:29] Where to find Amanda: the free goal-setting workbook at gtdscorp.com

Connect with Amanda Van Der Heiden:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandavanderheiden/

Website: https://gtdscorp.com/

About the Show:

Fine Is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is okay. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests who get honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage.

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