Steve Martin is one of the world’s foremost experts on influence, persuasion and how change happens. Maybe I could have just read his research and books and acted on them instead of this elaborate rous, but that wouldn’t have been as fun. Steve’s books have sold over 1.5 million copies, he’s a New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestseller and his work has been featured in publications like the Harvard Business Review, Financial Times and New York Times. He’s a titan in the field of behavioural science where he is a Visiting Professor at Colombia University and guest lecturer at the London School of Economics and Harvard.

At a time when much change is needed - from action on climate change to mens attitudes to women to systems of democratic governance - Steve’s expertise is invaluable. I’ve come to believe that the role of the sustainability manager is first and foremost chief influencer. Knowledge and expertise on the array of topics our work attempts to address is a necessity to get in the door for a role in the first place - well, it should be anyway. Beyond the subject matter expertise though lies applying its relevance in myriad organisational contexts is what leads to value creation. To work out not only the idea and put it in a powerpoint with some graphs and figures and tables, but then to smooth the way with other people to bring it to life. Sounds so simple in practice, but as I’m sure every person listening out there knows, it rarely goes that way. Steve’s work has shone a light on the well meaning but ultimately flawed approaches I’ve taken to change management - and of course they are, I've never been trained in change management, in influence, in stakeholder management. But when it’s the most vital part of my job, and likely yours too, where do we turn to for expertise? Well, Steve is about the best in the world at helping us all to start building this capability.

We cover lots in this chat - from the vocabulary of influence, persuasion and change, to examples from his life where tactics have been successful, the limitations of nudging for real change, communicating in an information saturated environment and probably the most valuable insight I took from his work - that to encourage change in others is ultimately a request to give something up, to lose something, and how our perception of loss and aversion to sacrifice are enormous blockers in the pursuit of the outcomes we’re looking for either as individuals on a daily basis through to large organisations with the power and prestige to make a real difference.

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