Raymond Carver's Cathedral might be one of the most simple and beloved American short stories, but Benny is determined to overthink it anyway.

On meta-deception: before we dive in, Benny obsesses over “meta-deception” and feels betrayed by magicians.

On jealousy: is it OK for your wife to write intimate poetry about another man tenderly stroking her face? Also, what does it take to be a good host?

Moment of transcendence: what is the narrator transformed by drawing the cathedral, or is this just an over-interpreted moment in American fiction? We talk about sincerity, empathy, and seeing other people.

Full transcript for this episode at doyouevenlit.com enriched with links, ideas, authors, etc.

CHAPTERS:

(00:00:07) benny mad at magicians using magic
(00:04:55) carver’s plain writing
(00:07:19) poetry not the first thing we pick up
(00:07:48) tribulations of being a good host
(00:12:46) getting reality from tv
(00:17:12) boundaries on friend zones
(00:20:41) dining in the dark
(00:26:42) winding down for the night
(00:28:24) describing cathedrals
(00:35:23) on gaining empathy
(00:38:02) what we get from cathedrals
(00:41:17) on still being a good host
(00:44:54) benny still not getting it
(00:49:20) next book announcement

WRITE US:

We love listener feedback. Send us a note at Some say it's good.)