When we recorded this episode two weeks ago, we knew that the Supreme Court was planning on releasing a judgment in Chiles v. Salazar — to decide whether Colorado’s law banning conversion therapy (which is similar to laws in 22 other states) likely violated the First Amendment. We thought the decision might come in June. But it fell last week like a hammer, and has the potential to undo years of advocacy to ban treatments that have tried to "ungay" thousands of kids, teens, and adults.

The judgment is devastating. But it also reminds us that just because a treatment is "legal" doesn't mean it's ethical — or even that it works. (It doesn't!) Timothy Schraeder Rodriguez endured years of conversion therapy, and joins the pod to talk about the real psychological harms it inflicts, and answer all of your excellent questions about how to spot a therapist using low-key conversion tactics, how to make sure kids growing up in high-control anti-gay environments know you're a safe person, and why this therapy persists despite so much evidence that it doesn't work. This is a hard episode — but an important one.

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Show Notes:

• Pre-order Conversion Therapy Dropout here: https://bookshop.org/a/56144/9798889835431

• Follow Timothy on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/timothy.s.rodriguez/

• Subscribe to Timothy's newsletter here: https://timothysrodriguez.substack.com

• The Center for American Progress report on the Trump administration's efforts to rebrand conversion therapy: https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-trump-administrations-campaign-to-rebrand-conversion-practices-puts-lgbtqi-communities-at-risk/

• A solid overview of some of the ramifications of deeming therapy as protected free speech: https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2026/03/chiles-salazar-therapy-free-speech

• Exodus International disbanded in 2013 and released a statement that conversion therapy doesn't actually work: https://www.npr.org/2013/06/20/193965227/group-that-claimed-to-cure-gays-disbands-leader-apologizes

• For anyone who needs it, Tim recommends the Q Christian Fellowship, which provides resources for LGBTQ+ Christians - https://www.qchristian.org

• Melody's other podcast, Strict Scrutiny, recorded an emergency episode about the opinion, its complications, and its ramifications: https://crooked.com/podcast/scotus-not-cool-with-colorado-ban-on-conversion-therapy/

  We're currently looking for your questions for future episodes about:

• WHITE LADY HAIR! Cultural critic Sarah Mesle will be joining us to talk about her new book Tangled: Seven Iconic Moments in White Women's Hair and What They Tell Us About Power, Pleasure, and Complicity. If there's a white lady whose hair interests you, I guarantee you it interests Sarah, too. We can talk about specific celebrity/actress haircuts but also specific styles/trends. I cannot wait for this one.

• EMILY BLUNT! (and secondary characters becoming primary ones!) with Xochitl Gonzalez — obvi we're gonna talk a lot about Devil Wears Prada and 2000s-era striving but you can take this in so many directions

• BOOMER MOMS! Tracy Clark-Flory and I need your questions about why boomer moms (very broad designation here, I realize) are the way they are — we're specifically going to talk about the constrictions of growing up in '60s/'70s U.S., particularly around femininity, race, education, body image, employment, and motherhood. This one's gonna be really good, I know it.

• INTERGENERATIONAL FRIENDSHIP with Andrew Sean Greer, author of Less (and Villa Coco, a new book with an intergenerational friendship at its center). You can ask questions about how to find intergenerational friends, how to sustain those friendships, what people seem to love so much about them, wherever your heart takes you.

• HOW TO FALL IN LOVE WITH A CITY with Lilah Raptopoulos, editor of the Financial Times city life vertical. We're going to talk about how to fall in love with cities WHILE VISITING (for fun, for vacation, for work) and how to fall in love with the city where you currently live. What tips do you want? What city are you struggling to fall in love with?

• Anything you need advice for/want musings about for the AAA segment. You can ask about anything, it’s literally the name of the segment.

• As always, you can submit your questions (and ideas for future eps) here

  For this week’s discussion: If you have additional advice on how to highlight that you're a safe person for kids who are growing up in repressive/anti-gay homes, we'd love to hear it.

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