Long after you’re born, your mother’s body continues to carry your cells—and you carry hers. The science behind this phenomenon is called fetomaternal microchimerism, and by bringing attention to this reality Dr. Kristin Collier dismantles the modern myth that we are isolated, autonomous, self-made individuals. The significance of relational biology is that you are never alone.  

On its own, the science is fascinating. But it becomes something far more profound when you consider the theological implications—especially for the Theotokos, the God-bearer who carried the very cells of Christ within her body—and her cells within His.

In this conversation, the University of Michigan physician—whose 2022 white coat address famously provoked a walkout—explores how faith and reason work best together, why medicine has become an idol for many, and what it truly means to see human beings as embodied persons rather than machines. Dr. Collier makes a compelling case for a proper view of health as right relationship, the power of story in medicine, and the deep biological and spiritual reality that we are never truly alone.  

Thank you for joining Commitment to Reality, hosted by Dave Hanegraaff. Follow Commitment to Reality wherever you get your podcasts.  

Also discussed on this episode:

• The white coat walkout and the myth of neutrality in the public square
• Why faith and reason are like two wings 
• The idol of medicine—and the deeper idol of health
• Narrative medicine—why story is a doctor’s most important instrument
• The placenta—the only organ two people create and share together
• Gnosticism and our age of disenchantment
• What it means to learn how to die well

(Timestamps below.)  
0:00 — The story of Kristin Collier
1:30 — From secular humanism to belief in Christ
8:15 — The white coat walkout at University of Michigan and the issue of viewpoint diversity 
11:50 — The two wings of faith and reason
18:45 — Have we made an idol out of science and medicine? 
23:50 — Health as an idol: A Christian perspective
31:50 — The importance of learning to die well
34:45 — What is health? Learning to see health as more than just the absence of disease
42:30 — We are not machines 
52:15 — Task completion is not care — Narrative medicine and the value of story in medical care 59:30 — Relational biology
1:08:45 — The placenta is the only organ in the human body created and shared by two people 1:10:50 — If we believe that life begins at fertilization, then our language and ethics should reflect that reality 
1:16:15 — Your mother still has your cells in her body (and you have hers)
1:19:45 — The theological implications of fetomaternal microchimerism for the Theotokos carrying the cells of Christ within her forever 
1:30:30 — Should scientific discovery and the theology of the body change the way Christians view Mary as the mother of God?
1:33:00 — Gnosticism and our age of disenchantment
1:36:30 — Where are we most eager to ignore reality?
1:46:35 — In a world that feels increasingly unreal, what feels most real?