Dive into the fascinating and often misunderstood world of host clubs in East Asia with Malcolm and Simone Collins on Based Camp. What starts as a discussion on flipped dating dynamics—where women pay for male attention—quickly uncovers the darker realities: addiction, sex work pipelines, and psychological manipulation. Drawing from firsthand testimonials and cultural insights, we explore how hosts create obsessive attachments, why these clubs thrive in Japan, Korea, China, and beyond, but flop in the West, and what it reveals about gender psychology, dating strategies, and evolutionary behaviors. From V-Tuber analogies to debunking red pill myths (like the obsession with muscles), this episode is packed with eye-opening stats, analogies to OnlyFans and gambling, and practical advice for modern dating. If you’re into cultural deep dives, relationship dynamics, or just want to understand why women obsess over “Tumblr sexy men,” this is for you!

Subscribe for more unfiltered takes on culture, psychology, and family-building. Check out our book The Pragmatist’s Guide to Crafting Religion for more on these topics.

Episode Transcript

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today I wanted to do something interesting because I was thinking about the concept of host clubs and for fans not familiar with the host club.

A host club is something that’s very popular across East Asia, particularly well known in Japan, but also in Korea, in Taiwan, Taiwan, in Thailand, and in China. Mm-hmm. And it is a club where women go to sort of, experience dating with guys. And the reason I wanted to go deeper into this is because they are an environment where the typical script that we are dealing with in dating is flipped.

Simone Collins: Right? Men

Malcolm Collins: are hyper desirable and the women pay and simp for the male’s attention.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And I wanted to better understand. How this sort of changes, what it means to date the strategies that are used, what strategies are the hosts using to lock down these women? And as I started to dig [00:01:00] into it, I began to realize that the surface level understanding I had of what a host club is, is entirely wrong.

And the understanding that you probably have of what a host club is, is entirely wrong. So, I’ll drop a little stat on you that might help you or reframe the concept of a host club for you. So if you had to guess for what percent of women that visits HOS clubs is sex work, their primary form of income,

Simone Collins: My understanding is it’s fairly high.

So I’d say maybe 30%.

Malcolm Collins: 80%.

Simone Collins: 80%. I, I heard though that, that getting addicted to host clubs is the pipeline to sex work.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. So, host clubs as an industry and the host clubs often manage the female sex work as well.

Simone Collins: Oh, wow.

Malcolm Collins: So the, the men at a host club are sort of like an intermediary form of institutionalized pimp kind of,

Simone Collins: right?

They’re like honey trap [00:02:00] pimps,

Malcolm Collins: sort of, yeah,

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: The, the, the women go to the host club and, and like, if you’re thinking about the, the pipeline of money for host clubs the hosts themselves are just an intermediary for what is a pipeline that is predominantly female sex work. Given that the, the core income, the money that’s flowing from these women is itself coming from sex work.

So I wanna know, how does this effing happen? How does a woman. End up, and, and a lot of women are fully aware of this as well, starting at a host club, going to a host club and falling into this pipeline, first of all, and I think you, you said something there that’s really important, and it’s something that we’ll get to in this.

It’s host clubs are about creating an addiction. It’s about getting a woman addicted to a host. But what I also learned from reading, because that’s like I wanna read a lot of first person testimonial, not the western patholization of what a host club is, right. And what I [00:03:00] came to understand is that a host club psychologically for the people who engage with it, the women who engage with it, is way, way, way closer.

If, if you’re, if you’re looking at like, what would be an American analogy? Something that you might have experienced with it. Oh, are

Simone Collins: you gonna say gambling addiction?

Malcolm Collins: No.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay.

Malcolm Collins: V tuber addiction.

Simone Collins: What? Oh, interesting. So

Malcolm Collins: specifically, a huge part of the host club is wanting to make your guy like the number one guy in the club.

Yeah, get him to the top of the charts, get him to relevance. Mm-hmm. Very much like the way, if you are unfamiliar with VT tubers, people will have like their oshi or something. Right? Like their, their push. No,

Simone Collins: I didn’t know. So people are playing favorites against v tubers.

Malcolm Collins: Well, so the idea is, is that when you have now this is something that actually comes again from Japanese culture, that even the term Oshi does.

But the idea is, is that you have a group, or not even v YouTuber, YouTubers more [00:04:00] broadly that you are a large fan of and you want them to do better. And to, to outcompete the other YouTubers, the other v tubers. Mm-hmm. In fact, you could say that our job and our relation with our fans is probably more analogous to the relation of most hosts with their guests when contrasted with other American professions.

Hmm. EG. A lot of people, so obviously we don’t have any fans like this. Like we don’t have any fans. And as the gold had actually talked about, whenever a fan tries to give a donation to him of over a certain amount, like a, a push to him of over a certain amount, he always rejects it because these, like bad things can only come from this, right?

Mm-hmm. Like, and he’s says when Female v Tubers have had like fans go crazy and stuff like that, he’s like, they should have rejected the $10,000 donation. You know, they should have known better. Fair enough.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Because often these, when you actually dig [00:05:00] into the, the instances in which you get these really huge payouts and everyone’s like, what’s happening here?

Who’s the, you know, the furry who’s commissioning these extremely expensive furry arts and everything like that? It is almost never a wealthy person. Mm-hmm. It is almost always. A person going into debt

Simone Collins: or very often it’s someone stealing from a family member or something like that. When I hear about these often, it’s that they’ve been stealing from like a, a sick grandmother or something.

It’s horrible.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so, but the point being is that when you, and, and this is first of all, very important to understand in this psychology because you could understand these women as victimized or something like that. When you go in and you start watching a v YouTuber who you really like, right?

Mm-hmm. And you may be aware from the little signs on their screen of the dollar amounts, bing, bing, bing going on their screen mm-hmm. That some people are likely donating to them in a way that is financially unsustainable. Yeah. But you watching them, even when you donate to them, if you do, I’ve never donated [00:06:00] to a V YouTuber, but I, I, you know, I we’re sort of in an overlapping profession here.

When you donate to them. You don’t feel like you’re being exploited, right? Like you don’t think that they actually love you. Yes. There’s a few like crazy people who think this but the vast majority of the people who are putting money into that v YouTuber do not feel like they are now, they realize they have a parasocial relationship.

Yeah. They realize that they want the vtr to do well. Yes. They even feel good themselves if they sell the vtr topping the charts. Yes. But like a sports team or something like that. But there is not the direct form of exploitation that we might ex expect from a host. So, before I go further, just I I, I will note also, this isn’t all the time.

Some hosts. Really are a pipeline to just brainwash women, and we’ll get into those hosts and how they operate.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: But for other hosts, it’s more like this other pathway. And then you get the addicted women [00:07:00] who are the main source of income for the bar because they’re just spending so much disproportionately on the bar in the same way that like you know, I think it’s something like 80% of the profits in almost any addictive industry, whether it’s gambling or alcohol or cigarettes, come from 20% of the buyers.

But Any thoughts, Simone, before we go further, does this change your, your vision of the, the sanitized host club? We see it, or in a host club or whatever?

Speaker: ケースと

Simone Collins: I’ve listened to some more bleak sometimes slightly disguised first child accounts, firsthand accounts of host club, we’ll say victims. So I. I already kind of expected this.

Well, I’ll note.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, continue.

Simone Collins: I, I find it more akin to OnlyFans men, like men who end up spending a ton on a woman via OnlyFans than I think anything else. [00:08:00]

Malcolm Collins: And then that’s, that’s, that’s pretty good as well as an, as an analogy, like the man isn’t exactly being victimized by the woman on OnlyFans. Mm-hmm.

You know, he knows what it is. She knows what it is. I, I will note here that you do see from after a person leaves the host club world in ecosystem.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: They often attempt to reframe it as I was fooled into thinking I was in a real relationship. But when

Simone Collins: I, well, it’s, and it is a little different with these host club relationships because the men often.

Do, I mean, one, there’s the physical connection and two, the men are often texting these women saying, oh, will you come tonight? Well, you know, I’m really, I have to meet this goal. They’re really pressuring me. They, they use much more personalized tactics. No, no, they do. And another

Malcolm Collins: thing that I did not realize about host clubs is it is very common in host clubs for the host to have.

Sexual relations.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: With the client very early in their time together. Mm-hmm. So after, just so is, this is really [00:09:00] fascinating, if you can trust male and female psychology.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Good point. Yeah. Whereas a female who was like an escort or something like that may increase her perceived value to a partner by not sleeping with them for a very long time.

Simone Collins: Right.

Malcolm Collins: And wanting to extract more money before they sleep with them, with women, because women psychologically in print, especially sexually inexperienced women, this is something I experienced a lot back in the day when I was sleeping around. A woman hadn’t slept with anyone. They become like really devoted and obsessed with you.

Often if you’re the first person they sleep with or, and, and it happens less if you’re in like the top two or three people they sleep with. And it is because female brain seems to be, you can watch our videos on how women who have a higher body count, they lose this oxytocin burst, which causes this sort of like involuntary obsession.

But you do see this with women. And so what the host is actually doing here is trying to get to that point as soon as possible. Oh wow. With as little money spent as possible, not the most money spent [00:10:00] as possible.

Simone Collins: That’s wild.

Malcolm Collins: Which is, I think a

Simone Collins: really, ‘cause it’s, it’s more how do you get them hooked And for men you don’t necessarily get hooked after one sexual encounter, whereas with women, that can be very foundational.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Wow. I hadn’t thought about that element of it. That’s really interesting. Yikes.

Malcolm Collins: Rewriting their brain psychologically. So, and then another question we need to answer here is why are host clubs only in East Asia? Why have they never been as successful in the west?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And the answer seems to be, we, we actually do seem to have an answer to this.

Is, is, is, is this is my understanding.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: And it is that a lot of East Asian women have normalized and romanticized western sexual norms and gender dimorphic behavior patterns. Hmm. And the host club allows them to engage in that more. So, [00:11:00] if you look at interviews, it’s sounds like, what was it like a huge chunk, I think it was like 80% of Korean women want to leave the country.

And like, what if they could, as an example? Oh my gosh.

When we do our episode on Korea and when you watch interviews with them. What a lot of them will say is their fantasy is going to a place like New Zealand or Australia or the United States co white, European men and marrying a man in one of those countries.

Mm-hmm. And the reason they have this fantasy is because of the level of misogyny that they believe that they will be treated with if they marry a man was in their own country and was in their own culture. And the, the reason why host clubs do not work in the West is Western men are on average but we just act more like hosts do, I guess you would say.

We are, are nicer to women. And you will see this because as I read through this and you hear the things that hosts say that are almost written about within some of these [00:12:00] sources that I’m gonna be drawing from, a lot of them are, are Asian as if they are diabolical to say this to a woman. And you’ll be thinking that’s a normal thing to say to a woman.

Isn’t it like you look lovely today. I always look forward to talking to you. Tell me about your problems at work. The porn for women from 30 Rock.

Speaker 2: Hello there. Well, hello. How was your day? Do you need to talk because I’ll just listen patiently and say things like, . She’s clearly jealous of you and Well, it’s his loss. You are a great woman. Do you deserve a great man for just 24 95 an hour? Yes, please. It’s the yellow button, sweetie.

Malcolm Collins: But the reality is, is that western men yeah, there’s like a small portion of like super misogynistic western men who like train themselves to not act like this.

But historically, and, and, and in modern, even in a modern parlance western men, this is, this is the way that we [00:13:00] are raised to treat women. And so, there’s less of an appeal for that. If there was a, a bar where there are a bunch of male waiters who said that stuff to women in the United States women would just be like, but I can get this from any stamp.

But, you know, like, yeah, why you here? But anyway, to continue. At the most basic level, the hosts are young men who provide pseudo romance to multiple women for sometimes exorbitant amounts of money. A host club visit is expensive and can cost around $30 per hour. Per hour. But this does not include drinks, which are often sold by the bottle, was a huge markup.

The club where I carried out the bulk of my research charged, 80 pounds per bottle of alcohol that would cost 10 pounds at a supermarket. This is what makes bills jump. Women often compete for their hosts attention by buying more bottles of alcohol. And it’s this system of picking favorites that is the lifeblood of the host club.

So very, very interesting here, right? Like, what you’re seeing. It is a few phenomenon at [00:14:00] play. First, the male host value is artificially augmented upwards for the women because they see other women competing over this individual. Mm-hmm. And you know, the, the chef principle, I don’t even think I’m gonna bother putting in the cliff here,

Speaker: What’s the garlic effect? The law of physics that states, if one girl screams for something, it will make other girls scream and then it grows exponentially until all girls within a five mile radius of screaming.

So how do boy bands use that? All they do is make videos showing tons and tons of girls screaming for the boy bands. Once you get girls screaming, you can’t stop ‘em. They’re crazy.

Malcolm Collins: where if women see a bunch of women screaming over a guy they, there’s actually great studies on this, so, women will find men more attractive and be more likely to approach them if they have a wedding ring on.

Now that’s an odd effect. Why do women do that? It seems like that’s diabolical

Simone Collins: because women are terrible.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, women are terrible.

Speaker: [00:15:00] the lady has foolishly attempted to join the conversation with a wild and dangerous opinion of her own. See how the men look at her with utter contempt.

Women, know your limits.

Malcolm Collins: No, but it’s because well, I mean, one, you,

Simone Collins: well, it, it’s for the, it really realistically, women do this for the same reason. Why employers love to hire people from Harvard or Stanford or Yale or some fancy Ivy League because they know that someone else who allegedly, probably did their homework, thought them worth accepting.

And so they are pre-vetted and that’s, I think it.

Malcolm Collins: But I think that there’s a, a, a bit more to it than that

Simone Collins: really.

Malcolm Collins: When a woman is choosing a mate which is what they are doing in this context they are saying okay, w what out of all of the males that I can see or may have access to, especially if they have already given up on the idea of having exclusive access to a male, which basically, you know, [00:16:00] biologically a woman at a host club has, she knows she doesn’t have exclusive access to these males.

So, she’s saying her body’s saying which of these males is going to produce a, a male child, for example, because 50% chance of child to male that women are going to want, right? And so if you see other women want. That person’s genes, you can assume that they will also want the genes of your child.

Hmm. And, and so this creates that phenomenon and, and something you can think here is how, how can you as a male out there dating, create this person that

Simone Collins: dynamic? Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And it’s also part of what causes the sort of like. Flood of partners once you begin to get a few partners. There was somebody in the comments who was like, oh, we all know Malcolm didn’t actually sleep around a lot, and Simone, you’ve like met my friends growing up.

Like that’s a comical statement.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But I can understand why people feel that way because Oh

Simone Collins: yeah, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: They have [00:17:00] perceptions around what it looks like to be somebody who has an easy time getting

Simone Collins: a girl. Well, and there’s also just the general adage of if, you know, someone is conspicuously talking about like, oh, you know how wealthy they are, you know, maybe they’re not actually that wealthy, that kind of stuff.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. But the the. One of the phenomenons that was probably most in my favor and in play in my favor was in the environments where I found it very easy to sleep with lots of people was they knew I slept with lots of people. And they knew that I was considered highly desirable and that my time was considered highly desirable.

And because of that, it, it’s a, it’s a, you know, a rich get richer just because they’re already rich, right? Mm-hmm. Like, it’s, it’s, it’s like, you know, if a super rich person makes a bunch of money in a day or whatever, you’re not like, oh, wow, you must have been such a genius, right? It’s, it’s like, okay, well now you’re already at a stage, like once you get past 15 or something, it, it just becomes trivially [00:18:00] easy at that point.

It’s the same way, you know, once you get past your first 500 million or something, you’re like, okay, now it’s just coasting at this point.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Speaker 14: More women you sleep with, the more numb you become to them. Ironically, that numbness actually makes you more attractive to certain women because you finally act attached and calm around them. So you end up in this weird loop because you get laid so often, you stop caring as much, and because you don’t care as much, you get laid even more

Malcolm Collins: and that’s, that’s part of what we’re seeing was in this phenomenon. Mm-hmm. But to continue. The first visit resembles a speed dating event. You talk to a new host every 10 to 15 minutes, and at the end of the hour you are encouraged to choose one to invite back to your table for a longer conversation.

From then on, he is your sheme or designated host. Wherever you go in the club, he is the one you talk to. It is a permanent relationship. It relies on the host not just being attentive to his customer’s likes and dislikes, but also on his ability to mold himself into what she is looking for that [00:19:00] evening.

He is responsible for her emotional wellbeing and enjoyment for the hour or two, she’s in the club. So this is really interesting here. And it makes,

Simone Collins: don’t you have to sign a contract after the first night with one too?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So they often sign contracts being like, I won’t go to other clubs. I won’t visit other sheme.

I won’t, you

Simone Collins: know? Yeah. Like you’re exclusive with them after that point. Yeah, and no, no other man at that club. Can walk up to you after that point you belong to him.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Which is really interesting, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah. ‘cause

Malcolm Collins: And you don’t see this in the male to female direction, right? Like,

Simone Collins: and you don’t hear about this happening, say at strip clubs in the United States.

Malcolm Collins: Right. And it has to do with relationship. I think from an evolutionary standpoint the idea of a multi-party harem in, in, in, in nature, like in tribes and stuff like that mm-hmm. Is something you actually see very frequently across human populations and is part of our evolved biology. Now it’s pretty rare for a successful cultural group to adapt this, but [00:20:00] it was much more common in East Asia than it was in, in the west specifically.

In Europe cultures that adopted this were typically outcompeted by cultures that didn’t adopt it. Whereas in East Asia you don’t see that as much. You do see a slight trend of cultures that are more monogamous to outcompete. One is that aren’t, but you still see some non-monogamous cultures succeeding.

But in these non monogamous cultures, it is always multiple women to one male, never multiple males to one female. Women really prefer even when a guy has other partners that they have one male, and this makes sense because in, in that context, at least somebody has some reason to share resources with you when you, when you get pregnant, right?

Like, there, there is at least some understanding of fraternity. If there are multiple males, there is no reason for anyone to invest in you except for your already biological relatives. And in the rare tribes where a woman just does sleep around randomly with whoever she feels like it the role of father is typically taken on by her brother.

Because that is the, the male in the [00:21:00] tribe who has the most certainty that he is a biological relative to that child.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Which I think is really fascinating.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Now I’m gonna actually go here, I’m gonna skip to something. I had grabbed later because I wanted to go into what an actual host said.

Like, how does he secure partners?

Simone Collins: Ooh,

Malcolm Collins: this is, this is actually translated from Japanese, so it’s, you’re getting straight to the source here. Okay. All right.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: An exfo too. So you, this isn’t even like he was interviewed or something, right? Yeah. This is just like what I do. And his picture was very hosty.

He looked like a host club member.

Simone Collins: What, like androgynous ish? Yeah. With spiky hair

Malcolm Collins: was like the glow filter that hosts used.

Simone Collins: Oh my God. Yeah. I feel like that this comes from URA booths, you know, like print, print club, those little arcade games where you used to take photos. They like all had that glow filter.

It’s such a thing.

Malcolm Collins: I, I could only imagine like the horror of a strip club guy goes, and the one’s like, okay, you’re signing a contract [00:22:00] saying you’re never gonna go to any other strip club. You’re only gonna see me when you’re here. A guy

Simone Collins: would be like, of mine would be like, yeah, no,

Malcolm Collins: no, I’m not sure I’m interested in this arrangement.

Simone Collins: Oh, bye. Okay, bye.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. When it comes to hosting, there are tons of things to keep in mind, but among them, the most important is remembering things when interacting with lots of girls. Is impossible to keep everything in your head. Mm. So I made a conscious effort to take notes on the info I drew out of each girl and memorize it.

People won’t take an interest in you unless you show an interest in them. Mm-hmm. You see what I said? Diabolical.

Simone Collins: That’s really good. And it’s, it’s not discussed enough among say, red pillars who want to spin a lot of plates, who wanna have a lot of sidekicks of like. Really maximizing their addiction to the men because their approach is all just disregard, maintain frame, play the dread game.

Like [00:23:00] make them feel like you’re just gonna leave them at any moment. Whereas he is showing more the carrot approach, which is show that you’re the one person who understands them and listens to them and oh my God, it’s not hard. Yeah. I think that this is

Malcolm Collins: so, so,

Simone Collins: underrated and

Malcolm Collins: it’s something that is really the failure of the dread game.

Yeah. The dread game is very, very good to play if you are looking for one off sexual encounters.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: If you are looking to get people who are addicted and obsessed with you the dread game is a lot less effective. And that’s the point of the host. Right. And you’re actually looking for something of an inversion of the dread game here,

And this is where men who follow the dread game or fall into, , all of this, you know, sort of overly misogynistic red pill stuff. Get a wrong perception of women that completely screws up their ability to date. They’re like, Malcolm, are you telling me, I, I’ve seen that women go [00:24:00] crazy over like male murderers who get sent to prison and all of these terrible men and everything like that who’ve done these terrible things.

You’re telling me that they like it when a guy pays attention to them and remember things about them and acts like he cares about them. And I’m like, wait, wait, wait. Do you notice that nothing you just said is contradictory to what we’re talking about here? Do you think these host club men who are manipulating women and women know that these men professionally manipulate women into becoming essentially smec slaves?

, And then sell them out so that they can pay them, so that they can win their little. You think these are nice guys? You think these are good guys in a women’s mind? No. Oh God, no. When you look at the, , when I say, oh, women aren’t really into muscular guys that much. If you look at the guys that women obsess over on, say, Tumblr, and people say, oh, oh, these these tall, skinny top hat guys that they all like on Tumblr, they must be All Saints.

I’m like, oh no, they’re, they’re usually like demons and mass murderers [00:25:00] and the destroyers of the environment. They’re not nice. They’re not nice at all. You have confused your perception. Of masculine ruthlessness with the ideal female perception of masculine ruthlessness.

Malcolm Collins: And a lot of men.

Well, we’ll, we’ll read through the full thing first. Yeah. And I think you’ll see like, wait, is that really, is that how this insidious thing is done? So, he goes, if you ask about something you heard in the past all over again, it makes it feel like you have no interest in them, which is a total turnoff.

So before reading up, review your notes to avoid asking the same things. Mm-hmm. And careful about that. With the info you’ve gathered, you can decide on presence, sales approaches, aftercare, offsite plans, and so on. So. A few things to note here. One thing that is very common among hosts, which you would not see as hookers, is offsite activities.

Now, we noted that they often have sex with their, the, the, the people who they’re seeing. But they will also do things like go to Disney World, go to [00:26:00] bakeries.

Simone Collins: Oh my gosh. What?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Do typical romance take

Simone Collins: you on dates?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Take you on dates in a very stereotypically romantic fashion. Right. And the

Simone Collins: other no.

This, this is much more resembles the acts. This is so odd to say, but of a. A salesperson, a corporate salesperson.

Malcolm Collins: Yes.

Simone Collins: Like, I’m gonna take you to a Mets game. I’m gonna take you to, and on a hunting trip or on a, you know, to the ni a nice restaurant because it’s building that relationship and that like favoritism above and beyond logic.

That’s so interesting.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. And something else that’s really fascinating here is that they what was I, what was I saying? That they very important. It’s not just to remember her interests. Right. Like, I think a lot of guys, they’re like, okay, I need to remember her interests. Mm-hmm. But no, you have to remember the conversations you have used with her in the past.

Mm. ‘cause if you are talking and hitting up lots of girls at [00:27:00] once, which, you know, back when I used to flirt a lot, I would do, I would try to have a policy of always be talking to, on any given night, like at least three girls at a time. And this was through multiple chat threads. Mm-hmm. And you can easily develop, sort of go-to questions to advance the either the relationship or just to, you know, for interaction and end up using your go-to questions more than once with one girl.

And any guy who has practiced high throughput dating is very aware of this. Mm-hmm. W you for example, Simone, did you notice me ever accidentally asking you the same go-to question twice early in our

Simone Collins: relationship? Never. Never.

Malcolm Collins: Because I took notes. And a lot of guys don’t do this. They don’t take time to take notes.

Right. So to continue here, if you ask about something you heard sorry. Before meeting up, review your notes to avoid asking the same things and be careful about that. And I’ll note here with Simone, the day that I went on a date with her, that was my second date that day, right? Like I was [00:28:00] doing extremely high throughput dating.

Now, ironically, so was she, that was her second date that day as well. We were, it was, we were in it to win it in terms of finding a, a marriage partner. Yeah, or you were just looking for someone to have sex with for the first time. But I was looking for a marriage partner back then. But we were both completely like, we have to make this happen.

And that requires extremely high throughputs, right? Mm-hmm. Which unfortunately for this generation aren’t as possible. And they need to develop new strategies on how to achieve that and to create these psychological framings, like the ones that the host do. So for me, I was able to create high throughput because on dating apps back then, if you just reached out to a lot of people, you could get a bunch of people reaching out to you.

That’s not the case anymore. You swipe right all week and you’re gonna get one or two matches. Right.

Simone Collins: Terrible. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So you need an environment where you can have directed outreach like direct emails, direct LinkedIn, like et cetera. Like if I was dating today, that’s

Simone Collins: probably no this’s. Why a lot of, yeah, a lot of people.

[00:29:00] Well, I feel like five years ago people used X and LinkedIn a lot. I bet they still are. But honestly, I feel that the bigger trend now is people are just giving up.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. The bigger true now is people are just giving up. Yeah. Which is sad. I, I’ll tell you what, I’d never give up. I’m, I was obsessive about this stuff.

I mean, keep in mind the, the things I did back in the day the, the, the core thing I did to like get good was the reason I would always run a few chats at a time and have to be very careful about not repeating things is because I used basically pre-written text blocks with minor variations to fit that individual conversation.

To try to build was like a statistical probability in my mind. Now, I didn’t like write out the statistical probability. It was more just like, get a feel. Okay. This chain always leads to this chain, always leads to this to sort of build branching conversational pathways that I could reliably steer [00:30:00] to certain in states that I was looking for.

Hmm. And there really is only so much, like once you’ve run mass conversations over and over and over and over again, you realize pretty quickly that I mean humans are a lot like ais, right? Like, they are fairly predictable, especially Normies. And there’s a lot of normie girls and girls are even more predictable than males, right?

So as soon as you figure out the standard operating pattern and you then figure out the type that you’re dealing with, because girls fall into like a few archetypes goal types, desire types you can quickly predict whatever is going to come next if you have a high amount of pattern matching in the past to continue here.

With the info that you’ve gathered, you can decide on presence, sales approaches. Okay. Aftercare, we just talked about that. I think it’s really interesting how you, it’s like, it’s like sales. Mm-hmm. If you just bombed with questions, it starts feeling pretty transactional. So you’ve gotta watch for that.

Mm-hmm. The info you draw out of her is forgetting them to know you [00:31:00] are and deepening your relationship. So share about yourself too. Like if you ask their favorite food, then share your favorite food as well. Something like that, and expand the conversation from there. Mm-hmm. And so he says the key pipeline works like this.

Show interest, draw info out, get them to show interest, give info. Mm-hmm. Remember, take notes. He says if you can e these three things thoroughly, you’ll sell to some extent. Yeah. So try so give it a try as a reference.

Simone Collins: Not rocket science people, but, oh my God, Malcolm. I. In my, in my, well admittedly brief experience dating before I met you.

You’re the only person who bothered to do that.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Did the, did any of the other guys, I think a lot of guys are like, oh, a lot of guys really do this. And it’s like, no, a lot of guys really

Simone Collins: don’t do this. No, they really don’t. And this is why also as parents, and I think this is important, even more important as far as we’re concerned, and many of the people listening, perhaps you can [00:32:00] give your kids such a huge advantage.

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: If you just teach them this and basic etiquette. Just like, because it, it, it’s not just, especially if it’s a young man, it’s not just that it signals that they are gentlemanly in a very romantic way. It also implies that they’re wealthy, even though that’s, it can be somewhat subconscious, but it’s this subconscious signaler of wealth that would even without explicitly communicating to women, or even if you tell a young woman like, Hey, I’m broke.

I literally have no money. She will still subconsciously see you and code you as wealthy if you have basic etiquette and like this social intelligence to ask questions and engage in real conversation. So,

Malcolm Collins: so this is

Simone Collins: actually

Malcolm Collins: incredibly important because when you say this, admin can be like, oh, come on, that, that can’t be that easy to work.

Look at the way it’s that male. That’s that easy post dress. [00:33:00] Okay. No, like pull up, I’ll put some pictures on screen here.

Okay. What minute a host club dress, like, and what they dress like is well groomed button down shirts

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And suits. Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: Often

Malcolm Collins: ties often.

Simone Collins: Oh yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Bow ties.

Simone Collins: Yeah. They’re not dressed comfortably for them.

Malcolm Collins: Usually

Simone Collins: that’s, and that’s the, the, the, the, so, you know, like women, like the, the male equivalent of a stripper woman or like a woman dressed as a call girl, like go, go boots, mini skirt, pushup bra, whatever. Right. A suit and a tie, like this is male lingerie. Can’t emphasize this enough. A man in a well-tailored suit is the sexiest thing.

And I know it’s maximum clothing, but like, and this is obviously, it’s, it’s interestingly so reversed. If you look at like a gay dating app, all you see is like six pack torsos, like just cut off the head. We don’t need to see the face. Like, just show me your abs and your [00:34:00] muscles. But for women it is like, no, just cut off the face.

Just show me the tailored suit. It’s,

Malcolm Collins: well, and it’s not just that. If you look at the host, they are trained to be incredibly well-mannered. Mm-hmm. Manners are incredibly important in securing a partner. And if you, well,

Simone Collins: this, I think you can also tell that this is a genuine signal that is irresistible to women.

When you look at. Periods in history where you see a huge spike in romance, novel, historical romance, novel settings. And this is why, for example, the Regency era is so popular, is you had not only a preponderance of manners, but a very organized and active society in which people got together to show off those manners.

It was like this unique peak in human history where that happened a lot. So it just goes to show like women love this and they will, they will jump to, to fantasize in periods of [00:35:00] history where it is. More likely to be shown because they just wanna sit in that, in that moment.

Malcolm Collins: And I think that for guys who didn’t grow up in an environment where they were taught manners

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: They can hear this and be like, well, where do I learn this? You know, go to ai go, go online. Research common manners, and keep in mind the manners that are going to impress the woman the most are the manners that are directed towards women. So easy ones that I’m always surprised there is one that I explicitly don’t do because I think it comes off as weird but all, oh, standing up

Simone Collins: when she stands up,

Malcolm Collins: standing up at the table whenever a woman stands up, that one to me comes off as too much.

But opening car doors for women is what like, a lot of people remember to open other doors, but when you’re walking to a car because you’re opening your own door, a lot of people don’t remember, oh, I need to run to the passenger side first and get her door. Mm-hmm. Close it, then get my door.

Simone Collins: Well, so.

My, one of my favorite books of all time is the Emily Post, like 1942 edition. No guy

Malcolm Collins: is going to read that.

Simone Collins: I know, I’m aware of that. I’m just going to say what she says in it because she’s [00:36:00] very, she’s very no-nonsense and pragmatic about etiquette, which I think a lot of people wouldn’t expect. And you’re describing like performative post sense, cotillion etiquette, you know, stand up when the woman stands up.

It’s really stupid and it’s based on old traditions that don’t actually make sense. What Emily post trains people in and what you really should be looking at is what I would call functional etiquette, which is just making, you could say human commerce or like human interaction or people’s lives easier, more transparent and more comfortable.

So it’s not about doing things in a performative manner, it’s about actually making someone’s life more pleasant and easy. It’s about clear communication. It’s about reducing stress and friction. So doing things like opening doors for people is, is nice ‘cause it makes their lives easier. It’s just a nice Yes.

Malcolm Collins: But I think you’re forgetting that a part of this goes back to what you originally said was it is a subtle and subconscious indicator to women of wealth [00:37:00] and desirability. Yeah. And class status. Yeah. So even the pointless ones, like a good example of a pointless one that’s not really relevant anymore.

But women do notice is that you always walk street side whenever you’re walking on a sidewalk with him. And it’s important to also understand why you’re doing things. Because if a woman asks you, why are you doing this? And you explain, oh, I do it. Because historically when carriages would rise through sewage, which was on the street, it could splash the woman.

Mm-hmm. And so men traditionally walk on this side of a woman, and a woman appreciates that because you’re showing more than just like rote class, but knowledge that comes with class. Right.

Simone Collins: Well, also def fenestrated excrement was more likely to fall a little bit further from buildings.

Malcolm Collins: The, the secondary thing.

And even your feminist who say, oh, I don’t like, I don’t like being treated this way. They like it. They, they like things like that. They like,

Simone Collins: yeah. A lot of men, I, I’ve only, I’ve seen it complained about more men saying, oh, I hold a door open and the woman [00:38:00] rolls her eyes and say, I can do that. But I’ve never seen that happen.

I’ve, and both men and women, ‘cause I hold doors for people all the time are always like, thank you. Like, they genuinely appreciate it. ‘cause as much as I, I am the ultimate hater of opening doors, which is why I bother to hold them. Like if I, if I went through the trauma of opening a door, damn straight, I’m holding it for like the next 10 people.

I’m gonna get maximum power.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. No, I, now I wanna go back to what we were talking about earlier because I think it’s another important thing that men get wrong in dating today.

Simone Collins: Ooh,

Malcolm Collins: okay. We’ve shown you how host dress, Simone. How was I dressed on our first date when I was looking for a wife? What, what was I wearing?

Simone Collins: You were wearing a button down Brooks Brothers shirt with a tie and a vest from Fair Gamo.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. That is, that is correct. That that was what I, you don’t need to mention the brands, I’m sure. Did you notice the brands when you first saw me?

Simone Collins: [00:39:00] No, I didn’t know, like you introduced me to Farma as a brand. I

Malcolm Collins: didn’t I mean, I don’t wear anything fancy now.

I only wear fancy things when I was trying to attract a partner. But that’s the thing that the, the, the the peacocking one is the one saying they’re gonna be doing less in the relationship and I definitely pull less weight than you in this relationship. But the point being is if you take away the brand names, what I was wearing was a pressed button down.

Nice. Shirt whi a tie and a vest and matching suit pants to that vest. I think you were

Simone Collins: wearing jeans actually.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I might’ve been wearing jeans that day. Okay. Yeah. The Texas

Simone Collins: tucks. That’s your culture, Malcolm. Respect

Malcolm Collins: it. My culture. Right. But the later after that, I, I, there was a period where I usually wore suit pants.

But anyway, the point being is that when I was trying to attract a partner for ts, I didn’t dress like this. No. The outfit that you have seen me wear on the show is one that I adopted because it’s utilitarian and dad like

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: The typical you know, button down collar. And I wore that [00:40:00] specifically because of what I was trying to present to the audience I’m selling to which is the Mr.

Rogers look is what I was going to. But then I realized it came off too lesbian ish because lesbians have

Simone Collins: appropriated

Malcolm Collins: it. Yeah. Now appropriated the dad look. And so now I’m trying to go for something more medieval, similar to Simone’s. I haven’t got my medieval jacket yet, but I’ve got my, medieval style top at this point that I’m gonna be able to wear with the it’d be clear.

It’s

Simone Collins: not a jacket, it’s a gamson.

Malcolm Collins: The medieval makes it cooler. Yeah, it’s a, it’s a, it’s like a armor thing that I’ll be wearing on shows. So now Simone and I, she, she had the Top Armor thing right here, and I’ll have a

Simone Collins: It’s armor thing. Yeah. This is like a, just a neck based gambon. Gamons are multilayered, sometimes filled with extra wool padded garments that existed more widespread before chain mail, but we’re we’re often worn under chain mail.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So I’ll be wearing the medieval style tops, and I got a few different versions of this coming , with like light armor, similar to what Simone is wearing now. So that, because people always ask, the reporters always ask, and I feel bad about it. They’re like, why do you, why do you dress your [00:41:00] wife this way?

And you dress normal. They, they acted like I’m, I’m forcing her to dress like a medieval peasant. And I’m like, you’re right. I should be doing it too. Look, I even got my medieval style pants.

The medieval style midsection here.

Simone Collins: Well, I’ll have to take a full body photo, but I’m not only gonna do it once we get your proper,

Malcolm Collins: my

Simone Collins: proper

Malcolm Collins: gamin and everything. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It’s, it’s all about the layers. You can’t really just wear something in isolation and have it

Malcolm Collins: work. But the, the second thing I wanted to note about these men that you see and this doesn’t look good at all without a jacket, so I definitely need to get the

Simone Collins: jacket for the canvas in.

Yeah. It

Malcolm Collins: looks a little too like if BS without the jacket on top.

Simone Collins: Yeah. That’s the problem with anything that has like excessive eyelets or metal or snaps these days, they’ve ruined it. Oh yeah.

Malcolm Collins: This is, by the way, the style that’s typically open right here. I just don’t like to wear anything open here, which is why it doesn’t look as normal for a medieval outfit.

But the other thing I want you to note about pictures, [00:42:00] again, pictures of host club members is what did they physically

look like? Because we, I mentioned this over and over and over again on the show, and men who came out of the Redfield diaspora are just completely blind to this. And they, at a pathological level refuse to accept what women actually go for because they’ll look at the studies that look at what women find arousing.

Mm-hmm. And it’s, it doesn’t matter what women find arousing, that’s not who they want to date or obsess over. If you go to Tumblr and you look at the pictures that women draw, right? It’s. What, what’s the typical Tumblr’s sexy man?

Speaker 5: Let’s start with the basic definition. Tumblr Sexy Man is a phrase used to describe any number of characters that have reached Viral Tumblr fame due to their alleged attractiveness. These characters are often drawn as skinny, white anime boys dressed in formal wear, and more often than not, they’re [00:43:00] evil, or at least have a dark side.

These characters include, but aren’t limited to the once left from the Lorax. Sands from Under Tail Raymond from Animal Crossing and Jeff, the killer to f**k the phenomenon of skinny white anime boys from cartoons becoming Tumblr’s. Obsession began in 2012, but the ironic phrase, Tumblr Sexy Man wouldn’t be coined until around 2013 to 2014.

By this point, the trend was way too widespread and prevalent not to notice and comment on, and thus it was given a name and became a meme.

Malcolm Collins: It’s like a, the one

Simone Collins: slur,

Malcolm Collins: the, the, the one slur, like the, the guy from has been hotel, you know, the the, the radio Sherlock

Simone Collins: and

Malcolm Collins: Watson.

It, it’s, it’s a overly skinny guy. Guy. Lucky. Yeah. Walking in a suit with a top hat that looks a little Faye and is like mostly evil. And women obsessive,

Simone Collins: mostly evil.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Speaker 6: The sexy man in question is a character called Alistair, the radio demon. You know the drill by this point. Tools, skinny bow, tie suit, sharp teeth, magical eyes, non-human, edgy, and evil, and [00:44:00] powerful, et cetera, et cetera. What makes Alistair interesting is the meta conversation that surrounds his very existence is Alistair, the radio demon.

Bait. He fits into every single trope laid out by the characters that came before him, almost to a t from the Sexy Pedia Wiki quote. He’s infamous for looking like he was specifically designed to bait the sexy man fandom and then actually getting it. Alistair actually wasn’t the first Tumblr sexy man to be accused of being ba.

Black hat, a character from the animated web series. Villainous has also been noted as fitting a little too perfectly into the trope, to the point where many are convinced he’s either bait or parody. If this is true, then Alistair and Black Hat may symbolize the next evolution in the tropes timeline. The Post Ironic Tumblr Sexy Man.

a lot of guys. Show that they just fundamentally don’t understand what women like when they say this stuff because they have learned what women want from male dominated communities, which don’t understand what women want. , They they get part of it.

Correct. Women do like [00:45:00] the scary. Machiavellian sociopathic guy, but they want that with a dash of charm and skinniness and levity, which is what’s provided for them in a host club environment

These guys are not good guys. They are the antithesis of good guys in many ways. The guy who sits down and meticulously draws out information from a woman to take a note to make her believe that she loves him and she knows he’s doing this that is more Machiavellian than the grust of Dread game.

Andrew Tate. Guys there have ever been.

and what’s provided for them with the Tumblr sexy man.

Whereas you of a guy, if you watch a scene like this and your takeaway is, oh, that’s Faye. That’s lame. I would make fun of him. You’ve gotta remember that women, when they watch this, takes away, that’s hot. I want to obsess over him, which shows that you are [00:46:00] optimizing around the wrong things.

Speaker 9: May I speak now?

Speaker 10: You may

Speaker 9: tell us a pleasure to be meeting you. We had quite a pleasure. Excuse my sudden visit, but I saw your fiasco on the picture show and I just couldn’t resist what a performance, why I haven’t been that entertained since the stock market crash of 1929. So many oftens stop.

Speaker 8: Right I’m not gonna let you hurt anyone Here

Speaker 9: dear. If I wanted to hurt anyone here, I would’ve done so already.

Now I am here because I want to help.

Malcolm Collins: No, but if you, if you look at these hosts, right? Not one of

them is overly muscular, not one. No. And these are, these are the ones that have entire armies of women that are prostituting themselves for these men to live the high life.

Right? They, they achieve this [00:47:00] without hitting the gym. Okay. Hitting the gym is for intrasexual signaling. It is for signaling to other men. If you’re looking at the payoff you’re gonna get from learning manners versus hitting the gym. From dressing well, from keeping your outfit well done, from staying well groomed.

And, and, and note here, the other thing about all these men is do they look sort of metrosexual? Do they look Fay?

Simone Collins: Oh, I haven’t heard that word in a long time.

Malcolm Collins: I, yeah, but there’s a reason why it took off. It, it made it easy to hook up with people, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah. What happened to Metrosexuality though? My gosh.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, right.

Simone Collins: Died. It just disappeared. It was such a thing for a while. It’s crazy.

Malcolm Collins: So, yeah, the, but the point I’m making is it, that’s the way they come off. That is the way that these men who have basically enslaved armies of women look

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: To the man. It’s not like a, most of them look this way. I’m, I’m [00:48:00] looking through pictures here of hoes.

I can’t find a single muscular,

Simone Collins: like linebacker. There’s no there’s no beefcake. That it, it is yeah, just is stylish. But

Malcolm Collins: I, I, I, I, I, I just like, and I know that I’ll never convince like your typical red pill men, like, because it, this is the thing, and this is why they don’t believe that like I slept around because they have these ideas around what women are actually after that are just so catastrophically wrong.

And, and it’s, and it’s, no, I’ll note here it is what women might disproportionately prefer. For casual sex.

Simone Collins: I could, I I could see how this happens though, right? That like, you, you keep leaning into this, the, the look that gay men find arousing.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Other men find a rousing and, and then like other men are like, dude, yeah, you’re so hot.

Like, why are girls not hitting on you? Like, there’re something’s totally wrong. You gotta try harder. And then it just makes it worse, you know? ‘cause like [00:49:00] all the men are like, yeah, no, you’re, you look great. You know? But then I, yeah. No,

Speaker 15: Was younger. In my teenage years, I had a friend that was like an inch shorter than me, and he would just be getting with girls and then the other girl would be like, oh, I heard you hung out with her. Right? And then you see that later on in life, right?

Like, girls just would don’t care if you reach a certain looks threshold. Like they’d rather share a better looking guy in reality they want something that, you know, the guy, they’re talking to, a guy that’s talking actively to multiple people that they don’t even know about

And in this clip you can see this guy is misattributing, why everyone is sleeping with his friend or interested in his friend and not him. He thinks it’s because his friend is more attractive when in reality it’s just because he appears to have more attention from other women, women q to that so much more than they queue to, , almost anything else.

, And it’s also likely because he’s optimizing around the wrong body type as you can see.

Malcolm Collins: I mean, and you can say, if you look at, like, a great example is like, okay, what’s, what’s the style [00:50:00] of book that like, only women read.

Oh, I know. YWE speaking of gay men, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Look at the body types in Ywe.

Simone Collins: Oh my gosh,

good point. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: They, they are, they are never overly muscular or very, very rarely.

Simone Collins: I mean, in heated rivalry, sort of the most famous recent.

Malcolm Collins: That’s the, the, the Western one.

Simone Collins: I can’t remember though.

Well, one of them was. Asian, I, I cannot remember what their bodies looked like, even though they were like in episode one instantly. No. They’re

Malcolm Collins: like, they’re like athletic and toned, but they are not muscular.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I don’t remember them being bodybuilder. Yeah. I re I, yeah. Men because they were hockey players.

Hockey players should be more beefy. But I don’t, what

Malcolm Collins: I, what

Simone Collins: I,

Malcolm Collins: what I say is is Chris Williamson, who runs Modern Wisdom,

right? The

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: On that show. Yeah. He would be more muscular than any of the characters that I’ve ever seen. Oh,

Simone Collins: way far. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So keep that in mind, right? Like, and, and I, I think the reason why some men, like just so aggressively are like, [00:51:00] no, this is not the case, is because the amount of effort and sunk cost they have put into the idea that the ultimate body type for women for like longer term relationships is ultra muscular.

Mm-hmm. And I will note it is for some women, there’s definitely women with a fetish for that, you know? But it is an it is not the majority of women, right? Yes. And I’ll note here, the point I was making when you started talking was that there might be, in terms of like what a woman finds in the moment, arousing mm-hmm.

A preference for this very muscular type. But if you are competing in the, in the moment sex market. You’re already in a losing market unless you’re like the top 1.1 0.1% of men. Right? So like, don’t put yourself in that market. And Simone, you said something on one of the episodes that’s a fan only episode that I think is really important.

And before I go further in this which is we were rating different ethnicities, attractiveness, right? Oh

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And you had this realization that what you were actually rating when you [00:52:00] were looking at the men is something scary just happened. An intimidating guy. Just approach which of these men are you going to run to?

What order are you going to run to them in? Yeah. Who’s car am I

Simone Collins: getting into? Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Whose car are you getting into? And that is how you determine attractiveness. And a lot of guys hear that and they go, oh, that means she’s going to run to the Buffett looking guy because that will be the best guy at protecting her.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And it’s like, no, that’s the guy who’s gonna beat me over the head with a stick

Malcolm Collins: because you’re that

Simone Collins: one.

Malcolm Collins: Like a vulnerable woman.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: They do not run to the buffs guy first. They run to the guy who’s the, who in their mind is the least likely to grape them when the car door shuts.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And so it’s often the most broy friendly looking guy.

Yeah. Which in that chart happened to be the American white male and then the American black male.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: They

Simone Collins: were number one and number two.

.

Malcolm Collins: I’ll see if I can find that chart and put it here. But like if you, if you look at this chart, you’ll immediately see what she means by that. Mm-hmm. These are not the most muscular men.

These are not the most masculine men. But even as a guy, I’m able to look [00:53:00] at this chart and be like, yeah, they look like they’d be the nicest. Like they’re the least shifty.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And what is it with Europeans and looking so shifty is this just

Simone Collins: like our American, I dunno man. But like it could also just be a cultural matching thing.

That. There’s this intuition that you are probably safest with someone who sees you as part of their group. So perhaps intuitively a a French woman would be more likely to get in the car with the French man because I mean, on average, I think people are less likely to commit crimes against people who are extremely, which, heres what shocks me.

That’s not true.

But wait, didn’t you just say that women like murderous evil men and aren’t there statistics that show that a lot of women like the idea of being, . Surprise sex or griped, , in an arousing context. And the answer to these things is yes, but you need to decompartmentalize what this means. A sexual fantasy isn’t necessarily what somebody wants in a partner, and just because somebody looks like they’ll protect you doesn’t mean that they [00:54:00] don’t look like they would be aggressive towards others.

So if you’re talking about like the ideal partner partner that many women hope for, it’s this. Machiavellian, very sociopathic man that cares about them specifically. Okay. And if you’re talking about this specific disposable sexual fantasy, it does exist, but it is more prevalent in women who are already being passed around and have already adopted the idea of themselves as disposable.

And this is not something that you are looking for necessarily in a long-term partner, even for these women. So while they might. Sleep with a man like this, they don’t wanna marry them. And you maybe here saying, oh, well that’s what I want. I just want to go and sleep with lots of women. It’s like, great, have luck being a genetic dead end.

And because do you know what , the funny thing is about Alpha F’s Beta, , bucks. The beta ends up clucking the alpha in that situation. ‘cause that alpha wasted his sexual lifespan, just effing girls, and then the beta married them [00:55:00] and provided for them and they had his kids. Now obviously it doesn’t always work out that way, but it works out that way more often than it works out in the quote unquote alpha’s favor in this scenario.

You know, get your head screwed on straight. Don’t follow the mistake that I had when I was a kid, where I thought it was all just about sleeping, sleeping, sleeping around. , Because at the end of the day, that doesn’t matter. You end up getting cocked with every one of those girls with whoever they actually marry, because the point of sex is children and a long-term relationship.

And anything other than that is just using somebody else’s body to masturbate, which is pathetic and sad because often men aren’t even really using somebody else’s body to masturbate. They’re using it to validate their egos, , to validate their self identities. , And that is really pathetic. And I’d say this as somebody who did that.

Right. I thought that that’s what my worth should be when I was a younger man. , So I understand this perspective and it is a pathetic perspective and not one that you should take pride in adopting. funny, , sexual, , [00:56:00] sort of dichotomy I’ve come to recently is arousal patterns and how you relate to them can be thought of as one of three categories, either you relate to it.

As a human, and that means you’re relating to it for reproduction and for the building of a legacy, you can relate to it as an animal. That means you’re relating to your basal animal needs, in which case you should be treated like an animal by society. And , finally you can relate to it as. Something controlled by a parasite.

These are the people who go to orgies and are constantly going down on people and everything like that. And see our episode on our parasites, making women hornier, where we go over that. It is now pretty incontrovertible, especially with these new s. Drain of toxoplasmosis, we found, , that there are some parasites that are changing people’s sexual proclivities to make them more likely to want these sorts of, , you know, group sex, , debauched sex scenarios so that the parasite can more easily spread and they’re really just tools of the parasite at that point.

All right. [00:57:00] I’m not talking to that thing in your head. I’m talking to Skara. Nothing of the host survives. Your friend had a feeble mind. It suffered greatly and gave it easily.

Malcolm Collins: Okay.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I consider myself as somebody who’s pretty racially based about things, right? Yes. Sure. Like I’m not over urban mono cultured. I’m not over,

Simone Collins: you’re not trying to lie to yourself. Like you’re not trying to override your intuition on anything for signaling.

Malcolm Collins: I found the black American male in that look looked safer and left shifty than most white European males in that aggregate picture.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But I think black American males are more likely to be like very, very, mixed, we’ll say like mixed race, like the result of biracial couplings. So he has a lot more a American feel. He shouldn’t be like American, European. He

Malcolm Collins: shouldn’t feel safer than Europeans, but Europeans [00:58:00] just looked actively shifty.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But I mean, our branch of Europeans left those Europeans ‘cause they freaking hated them so much so that at least in the early days, they were willing to probably die on a boat on the way away from them. That’s true. So yeah, I, I I think that, you know, even a, a genetically fairly distinct population that then mixed with the Europeans who left the Europeans we didn’t like is gonna be way more friendly to us.

You know, ‘cause they’re, they’re still mixed with the arc flavor of Europeans, you know?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: I dunno. This is, we’re gonna get into dangerous territory. Let’s move back to host clubs and the exploitation of women.

Malcolm Collins: So I, I have tons of stuff I could read here about it, but I read it all right before this and I didn’t want to like, go over stuff that you could just read anywhere and, and go through.

You

Simone Collins: haven’t yet explained how, okay. And you sort of talked about the top of the experience for women. So a, a [00:59:00] common experience if, just to recap, young woman you know, has heard kind of shady things about host clubs, but she and her friend are going out for the night. And they’re young college students, they’re kind of broke and they can’t really afford to go out and party.

But there’s this promotion at this host club where for, you know, if you’re the first time customer, you can get drinks free that night. I’m glad

Malcolm Collins: you brought this up. What is the actual customer type? Because you have already shown you do not understand the host club model. They say what they are looking for is desperate women from single parent families, not wealthy women,

Simone Collins: single parent families.

Those are fairly unusual in Japan.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Well, they’re not just fairly unusual, but when they exist the women are heavily bullied who grow up in them. Oh

Simone Collins: my

Malcolm Collins: gosh, heavily stigmatized. It’s, it’s a much bigger thing than in the US to be from a single parent family in Japan. And so, they’re looking for people who are psychologically very vulnerable and [01:00:00] even financially very vulnerable.

They do not go after wealthy women. They do not go after college kids, right? Mm-hmm. Like these are kids and people who have other options. They want more than money from the person because they have pathways to get money from the person to get them into the sex work pipeline and stuff like that. Mm-hmm.

Somebody who will be psychologically, desperately devoted for them. They’re looking for the person who they’re looking for the fem cell that’s who they’re looking for. And a fem cell is, I mean, you’re less, if you’ve got your, your life together, you’re less likely to be a fem cell. And that really surprised me as well.

Mm-hmm. And not just that, but the entire host club model is sort of built understanding how desperate these women who are the ideal hosts. Targets are. Mm-hmm. So they like, you will often read of like, you may not assume that this would happen, but hosts putting up their patriots, EG the, the women go live with the host.

Simone Collins: Oh my [01:01:00] gosh.

Malcolm Collins: And they’ll have like establishments for them to live in. And then they, they, they sell them out on the market. Right. The, these women. So the, because they’re like, yeah, you, you live with me. And, and, and then the, they, you know, they’re con they continue to be nice to the woman.

They continue to be sweet to the woman and they’re like, Hey, you know, I need this to get ahead in the club. You know, all the other people are doing it. Like all the other women who see the hosts are out and sleeping around. Right.

Simone Collins: Is this getting weirdly into Andrew Tate territory?

Malcolm Collins: It is very similar to Andrew Tate’s territory.

But it’s funny that with Andrew Tate,

Simone Collins: did Andrew Tate Convergently evolve host clubs, but just in a very different way?

Malcolm Collins: Not really, because Andrew Tate’s core audience is males. And

Simone Collins: right, but I’m talking about his original business model before he became a big time. Yeah. His original

Malcolm Collins: business model was host club, like

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: It was just a, a much less successful

Simone Collins: early, it was, well it was in a smaller scale and he owned his own we’ll say establishment.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: But very similar to these male [01:02:00] hosts. He would seduce women form relationships with them and then be like, Hey, I need your help with this. Do this. Sex work adjacent thing.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But he pretends to be all, so you’ve gotta keep in mind it was Andrew Tate is a little different from host clubs. So Andrew Tate basically used coercion, like getting women over, taking their passports away, stuff like that, making it harder for them to leave importing women from poor nearby countries, which was why he didn’t need to do the whole acting nice thing that host club people do.

It’s why he was able to have that undesirable body type from the perspective of doing this kind of work that you so rarely see in host clubs because Andrew Tate’s core audience was always men. Mm-hmm. That is who he was ultimately selling both himself and the women too. And so I think that he sort of presents a poor model here because Andrew Tate doesn’t really win the women he has in his harem in a in a fair market.

IE he’s, he’s [01:03:00] not getting them to come to his house off the street and pay to spend time with him and then eventually become so indebted. Mm-hmm. Let’s also talk about how they become indebted. ‘cause this is important too.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Host clubs work off of a very easy and heavy credit system. So the entire time you’re there, you are buying on credit.

Everything at a host club is done on credit. Mm-hmm. And because you form a psychological attachment to the host, you’re not likely to run out on your credit. And I think they also, you know, get your information and everything like that. That’s the point of the contract and everything.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: So, that is how women end up in these huge, huge amounts of debt because they are able to go to the host club, engage with the host, sometimes even after running out as so long as they’re paying off their credit.

Simone Collins: Wow.

Malcolm Collins: So the goal of the host club is to put them in like generational debt. And then, and the other thing about host clubs that I didn’t know is that a lot of these women, once you get in them into the the s work pipeline they then ship them to other countries like I think like Monaco and, and, [01:04:00] and some other places that are like known for sex work.

Mm-hmm. Specifically to live and do sex work full-time. And then they come back regularly, like coming off the the oil rig or whatever to see their family to see their, their host. So, you know, it starts psychologically vulnerable woman, get her into debt get her psychologically obsessed with the host.

Then have the host be the one person who is like really nice to them. And that’s the thing about the host, they are always really nice to them. Mm-hmm. Even after they you, you do get some domestic violence and some that I’ve heard of, but it, but it seems rare. It seems like the strategy is actually send them out for s work so that all the other men they’re around are mean and exploitative of them.

And there’s this one psychological spot in their head is, but there’s the one nice guy.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Right. And how can I even hate him? He’s doing the same type of work I’m doing.

Simone Collins: Mm. He’s that one spot of warmth in your life. That’s so sad.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Especially given what you said, if they [01:05:00] disproportionately target.

Young women who came from more vulnerable families and were bullied throughout other lives. So this is one of those few people who love bombs them. And then,

Malcolm Collins: But I mean, if you see it from the male perspective, it’s a lot less sad because these women had the choice to choose a, a regular man, right?

They had the choice to approach a guy to try dating a guy, and they didn’t. They didn’t.

Simone Collins: Dating culture in Japan is so messy, though

Malcolm Collins: it’s very hard, but it’s still their responsibility. Dating culture everywhere is messy. Dating culture in the United States is messy Now. It’s true. Dating is always hard.

Simone Collins: It’s true.

Malcolm Collins: And so, I, I hear what you’re saying there, but I, it doesn’t for me, excuse them. They need to go out. They need to handle this. And they, there is a, some poor Japanese incel out there because of their decisions, to not go out and have a normal relationship with somebody, um mm-hmm. To [01:06:00] aspire to a guy who is likely significantly more attractive than what they can get in a real sexual marketplace.

Mm-hmm. Instead of finding a guy who’s a fixer upper and help him learn manners, help him learn to dress nicer, clean up more, et cetera build your own host.

Simone Collins: Yeah. No one seems to want to do that work anymore.

Malcolm Collins: The other thing, by the way that people will notice about hosts before I go on, is they almost always have long hair.

Interesting. Which I think take from that, which you will, but yeah, they usually have when I say long hair, I mean like to here.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: It’s that, you know, the Japanese look right with the longer hair and

Simone Collins: the Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s more of a cultural thing than any kind of universal truth, though, don’t you think?

Malcolm Collins: No, because I’m looking here and it appears, okay,

let’s see. I, it looked at Japanese host club. Let’s look up Korean host club, see if they keep the long hair. Yeah, all long hair. Okay, let’s look up Chinese host club. Maybe. Maybe they won’t have long hair there.

Nope. Long hair again. And, and in Korea and [01:07:00] Japanese, it’s even more that they’re in suits. So, yeah,

Simone Collins: well recall the research that had me cut off my hair in the first place that found that both men and women are seen as more attractive and more approachable when they have long hair, but less, and that women and men are seen as more competent, but less attractive and approachable with short hair.

So, yeah, you know, Jesus hair attractive, approachable, Fabio hair attractive and approachable. This even shows up with Western archetypes I’m saying.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But I, I think host clubs are interesting to study and interesting to think about to one, understand what dynamics are like when you flip the SC grid, but also two, to understand like what actually works with women, right?

Mm-hmm. Because there’s a lot of perceptions of what works for women that are just wrong and created by frankly, wh where did men even get the idea that women want these super muscular men? I think they got the idea because they were listening to influencers that needed to sell to a [01:08:00] insecure male audience.

And if you are a male influencer selling to an insecure male audience, that audience is going to disproportionately prefer influencers who look physically strong. I.

Simone Collins: I moderate that a little bit. I think it’s more that when you feel vulnerable and you’re looking for advice on dating, you feel less comfortable turning to people of the opposite sex and you turn to your own kind and they’re more likely to not be able to model the opposite sex very well.

So they just do what they think would be attractive. And for men, that’s, oh, look muscular and look at female influencers who are talking about aesthetics and appearance. They’re really ultimately optimizing for a female audience. And it’s all about the makeup and the styling and the hair. And men. Yeah.

No, no guy cares about that. Men do not care. They do not care. So it, it’s, this is endemic with both sides of the equation.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. You, you, you, you actually make a, yeah. This is not a, a, a male fault, but Yeah. Be aware of, of, of where this comes from. [01:09:00] Mm-hmm. And what you look, the, the other thing to note about being super muscular which I think a lot of guys do not realize, is it codes as poor and low class.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

It does, it does.

Malcolm Collins: It’s, it’s, it’s very much the male version of having like a long acrylic,

Simone Collins: long nails and big boobs. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah.

Simone Collins: Sorry,

Malcolm Collins: sorry,

Simone Collins: sorry. We’re sorry. We’re sorry. Although, I mean, of course I’m not, because, you know, we’re, we’re gonna get so much heat and this people are gonna be like, oh, we’re Malcolm, you’re just saying this.

Interesting. Because something, something but hurt. You don’t live to go to the gym. You’re never going to

Malcolm Collins: No, no.

Simone Collins: And honestly, you do more crunches daily just flexing your abs than anticipation of one of our children randomly punching you out of nowhere. Oh, you don’t need to than the average man who goes to the gym regularly does.

You’re carrying our children up and down multiple flights of stairs every

Malcolm Collins: single day. But it would show but the point being Simone

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Is and for the guys who think like I am making up that I used to sleep around you like met the women. You’ve met my [01:10:00] friends growing up, Simone. Like, am I faking this at all?

Simone Collins: I know you’re not faking it. You don’t need to convince them. I know, you’re like getting frustrated by it. I don’t choose

Malcolm Collins: being a liar about

Simone Collins: f*****g I know, I know. Yeah, because we,

Malcolm Collins: and there’s like no way I can prove it other than what you have observed.

Simone Collins: Well, I mean, yeah. Or, or naming names, which would be really abusive.

That would be a terrible thing to do.

Malcolm Collins: Yes.

Simone Collins: You don’t kiss and tell people. But yes, I could attest the fact, but it was so bad that when I dated Malcolm in San Francisco, it like, we couldn’t go to a party without coming across people that, you know, you, you had encountered already. Not that they had negative impressions, it was just in weird, I guess, you know?

Yeah. Like.

Malcolm Collins: We’d go to a random event and they’d be like, oh, it’s Malcolm. But yeah. The the point being is the, the reason I mention it is in an episode like this, or in the episode where I did mention it, ‘cause I was talking about like differences in population sexually [01:11:00] mm-hmm. Is I try to mention it when it is germane to what I am talking about.

Like if I’m here saying, this is how you actually secure women. This is how you actually get women obsessed with you. And I’m just saying that as like a random guy talking you know, that’s, that, that’s a foolish thing to say,

Simone Collins: right? Oh. When, when anyone gives advice, it’s important that they explain the reason or the position from which they give that advice because anyone’s advice is going to get you to where they are.

Right? So, you know, this is why so many people who go talk with a life coach end up wanting to be a life coach. You, you need to know like, is, is, a chiropractor going to be giving you advice about your health ‘cause I bet it’s gonna involve going to more chiropractors. And yeah, if you’re talking guy who’s not married and never has been, or who’s been divorced multiple times for advice on marriage, maybe not.

And so it’s important for those who want to, to secure many sexual partners. It’s helpful,

Malcolm Collins: In the

Simone Collins: same way that like, but it’s [01:12:00] also important, I think, and this is another reason why I think it’s helpful for you to talk about your history and, and what your experience is. Because your advice is not necessarily relevant to say a mid, like a thirties plus man, your advice Yeah.

Is relevant to a young man in college or below because after that point you were coupled. You don’t know what it’s like to date as a professionally successful man dating slightly older women. You only know what it’s like to date women who are basically college age or below. And that’s, yeah. And I have,

Malcolm Collins: I have no idea.

I have not done significant dating after college except for marriage. Mm-hmm. Except just like marriage being the goal.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And so we don’t pretend that, you know, Malcolm’s experience is relevant to everyone either

Malcolm Collins: or, or that it’s relevant within the current dating app ecosystem, which I often flag.

Mm-hmm. But people are like, well then why like. Why do you mention in the same way that like I haven’t mentioned in this episode, something I frequently mentioned when we’re talking about elite culture, our connections to secret societies. Oh. ‘cause that’s not relevant to this topic, but when we’re talking about elite culture, it is [01:13:00] relevant.

So I do have to mention it so that you know that I’m not just speaking out my butt when I’m like, this is what people do in these sorts of events. It’s just, this is the one thing I can’t, ‘

Simone Collins: cause weirdly, so many people talk about these elite societies and they have no actual firsthand experience with them, which is just questionable.

You know? It doesn’t,

Malcolm Collins: yeah.

Simone Collins: Well and there’s

Malcolm Collins: many things that I have no experience with. Like if I was telling you guys how to get like a normal job.

Simone Collins: Yeah. How to navigate a large bureaucracy. Don’t ask us.

Malcolm Collins: No,

Simone Collins: we cannot help you. I am so sorry. Yeah. It’s not gonna come from us.

Malcolm Collins: Or how to, how to get a, a, I don’t know, multiple why’s or something.

I’ve never done that. Like I, I stopped at one wife. I was like, okay, I’m not, not even for like tra reasons,

Simone Collins: for no fault of trying apparently from,

Malcolm Collins: well, you were the one who did the episode away. I need a second wife.

Simone Collins: Theoretically, theoretically, logically, God, I regret everything.

Malcolm Collins: I love tormenting. You.

Do you [01:14:00] understand the psychology of why somebody might go to a host club after, after this episode

Simone Collins: before?

What I’ve heard is that it, it often happens by mistake in the same way that people can end up in cults, which is that again, I heard that a really, really common thing is host clubs give you a free night of drinking the first night. So you go to get the free drinks, but then you start talking with these guys and then there’s this one guy, and then he is like, Hey, listen, you know, it’s, it’s been the night.

Are you gonna choose me? Because it sort of becomes this fun night and you’re getting increasingly drunk. And then it’s like, oh, who will you pick? Who will you pick? And then you pick this guy and then he starts texting you and he’s like, oh, I mean, it’s so much fun. I’m like, you go again and it’s okay that you pay this time, and then it just gets worse and worse.

That’s what I’ve heard. So we’ve, we’re reading different source material, I guess. But well, no, that’s, that doesn’t disaligned with anything that I said. What you are saying is the, the key thing is that this is. This is one of the few people in the world who both is an attractive dude and you’re a woman and he’s kind to you and he pays attention.

He actually seems to care [01:15:00] about what you think and he remembers your tastes and your experiences Yeah. And asks you about them. And that is,

Malcolm Collins: and that’s the other big takeaway from this. If you’re a guy watching this in your dating

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Take notes on the women you’re

Simone Collins: dating. Yeah. How to, how to make yourself irresistible.

It’s not

Malcolm Collins: to meg them what you’re talking about. And, and if you heard what the guy said, he, he said that the entire time he’s interacting with the woman, he’s trying to draw information out from her.

Simone Collins: Oh yeah. I, I, I wanna make another point here actually. ‘Cause I think a lot of people are gonna be like, no, this just makes me a nice guy.

And like everyone knows that women hate nice guys. I think that people don’t realize that the, the nice guy like this is absolutely an issue. Women do hate. Nice guys. Nice guys. Do not pay attention there. It’s really annoying. Like they spend all their time signaling how nice they are. Meanwhile, they never actually pay attention to you.

Get to know you, like show interest in you, intellectually engage with you. Like [01:16:00] they’re just spending the whole time being performatively nice. So women can really sniff that out and they Yes, absolutely hate it. And the reason why the nice guy trope is a thing and why it’s so hated by women is that it’s, it is very disingenuous.

And even the guys who were like, oh, I did all the right things and, and it didn’t work. They were doing all the right things for all the wrong reasons. And so they really actually weren’t doing the right things. They actually weren’t engaging with the women because they liked that woman. They just wanted to sleep with someone and then they fell into the nice guy trap.

So I just wanted to point that out because I think a lot of people are just gonna be thinking like, oh no, this obviously isn’t gonna work. I’ve been nice before and it hasn’t worked. Yeah, you’ve been nice, but you haven’t been paying attention. You’ve not been nice strategically. You’ve been nice performatively.

Malcolm Collins: But the, the point here being is I, you’ve gotta note the when he says, I’m trying to pull information from her, I see every interaction about getting information from her. I give information about myself to her only to get more information from her. Mm-hmm. It’s the exact inverse [01:17:00] of frame mm-hmm. That you have in the red pill.

Mm-hmm. Right. With frame, you are trying to get her to see you in a specific way with the host club strategy. It’s like a dating sim. Yeah. Where like you’re trying to learn as many facts about her. So when you’re choosing the date, location, and the food, you get it right. Or something like that. Yeah. You know?

Yes. Or you remember her favorite color, you remember. Everything is about almost in a Machiavellian sense. Drawing out all of her internal programming so that you have it on a chart and it makes her easier to chart, manipulate, talk to.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like the, the, the reaction words you want to hear from a woman aren’t Oh, how sweet, or Oh, how romantic, but rather, oh my God, you remembered.

Or how did you remember that? Or you noticed? Yeah. Those are, those are the words you wanna hear. That’s how you know you’re in.

Malcolm Collins: But the, but the important thing, and this is what hosts do very well, to note [01:18:00] here, like the key to winning in the dating environment is the woman knows that you are desired by multiple other women.

Right. And at the same time, like she knows you are a desirable potential partner, you still choose to remember things about her.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: If you just choose to remember things about her and she does not see you as desirable.

Simone Collins: Oh, good point. Then it’s gross.

Malcolm Collins: Then you’re

Simone Collins: a stalker and you’re gross and you’re, yeah,

Malcolm Collins: because you don’t, you, you, nobody else wanted you, nobody else wanted your time.

Yeah. And host clubs do a good job of merging these two things, which are difficult to do.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Good

Simone Collins: point.

Malcolm Collins: But this is what I also talked about, the drought phenomenon, where it just becomes easier. Like when we would go to parties and Simone would meet other women who I had hooked up with and who liked me and clearly like, wanted to get back together with me that made her clinging tighter.

Like, I’m going to a random party with her. We run into somebody. How do you think, like you, well, I mean, so you could tell ‘em psychologically, how does that feel as a woman where you’re like, oh, there’s other women here who want him. [01:19:00]

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like, I need to double down and invest more. This is also something, it’s a, it’s a common, not like, not plot arc, but common flourish that shows up in romance novels.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Which is

Simone Collins: actually the ex-girlfriend who’s still ravenous for him.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Romance novels are a woman’s fantasy. Right. And in their fantasies, they do not want the virgin man, they want the man that other, and I’m not saying that you shouldn’t say virgin till marriage. You should. There’s a lot of negative externalities from sex here.

I’m just talking about what women want in women’s fantasies. Mm-hmm. And the idea of the man that other women don’t want is, is not, or that, that hasn’t been dating before, et cetera. Women don’t want that.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, love you Simone. You are an amazing wife and, and you are

Simone Collins: my host

Malcolm Collins: White end of my tunnel.

And I’m glad I remember conversations with you sometimes.

Simone Collins: No, you do because you don’t buy me [01:20:00] flowers. You buy me cheddar popcorn. And that’s how I know you love me. You noticed,

Malcolm Collins: oh, you are such a sweet. Sweet woman,

Simone Collins: I love you so much. I can’t believe that autistic man at Walmart didn’t believe me when I told him that the Walmart great value, fully loaded popc