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Aaron is joined by two CIA veterans—John Kiriakou and Barry Eisler—to discuss the late imperial mania of the US deep state. John Kiriakou is the former CIA officer who blew the whistle on the agency’s illegal torture program. Barry Eisler is also a former CIA officer and a bestselling novelist. His newest book is The System.

Check out:

• Substack: Loud & Clear with John Kiriakou

• Deep Focus with John Kiriakou

• The DeProgram Show

• Barry Eisler’s website

• Barry’s Substack

Special thanks to:

• Dana Chavarria, production

• Casey Moore, graphics

• Michelle Boley, animated intro

• Mock Orange, music